Harry Reid Blasts Rush Limbaugh As "Unpatriotic" On Senate Floor, Demands Apology To Troops
Dramatically escalating the Dems' confrontation with Rush Limbaugh over his "phony soldiers" comment, Harry Reid just laced sharply into the talk show host in an extended attack on the Senate floor, hammering Rush's comments as "unpatriotic" and demanding he apologize to the troops.
"His unpatriotic comments cannot be ignored," Reid said. "During his show last Wednesday, Rush Limbaugh was engaged in one of his typical rants. This rant was unremarkable and indistinguishable from his usual drivel, which has been steadily losing listeners for years -- until he crossed that line by calling our men and women in uniform who oppose the war in Iraq `phony soldiers.' This comment was so beyond the pale of decency that it cannot be left alone."
In an interesting bit of political theater designed to put GOP Senators on the spot, Reid said he's leaving on the Senate floor a letter his office wrote to the head of the parent company of Rush's radio show denouncing Rush's remarks. Reid challenged GOP Senators to sign the letter, saying that he's leaving the letter on the Senate floor for the rest of today.
The move is, in a sense, a stand in for another possible move: The introduction of a Senate resolution condemning the remarks in a fashion similar to the one that attacked MoveOn the other week. A new resolution could spark charges that Reid is indulging in tit-for-tat and indeed goes counter to a feeling among some in the leadership that it isn't Congress' job to introduce resolutions condemning private citizens.
By leaving the letter on the floor and challenging GOPers to sign it, Reid is signaling that he's playing political hardball in return, and taking active steps to put them in a politically difficult position, without taking the step of introducing a resolution.
"I am confident we will see Republicans join with us in overwhelming numbers," Reid continued. "I ask my colleagues, Democrat and Republican alike, to join together against this irresponsible, hateful, and unpatriotic attack – by calling upon Rush Limbaugh to give our troops the apology they deserve."
Amping up the fight even further, Reid took direct aim at Rush for skipping military service when he was a young man. "He never served in uniform," Reid said. "He never saw in person the extreme difficulty of maintaining peace in a foreign country engaged in civil war. Yet he thinks that his opinion on the war is worth more than those who are on the frontlines."
Full transcript of his remarks after the jump; video soon.
Late Update: Here's the video:
Mr. President, freedom of speech is one of our country’s most cherished values.
Nothing sets us further apart than the countries and regimes we oppose than our belief that everyone’s opinion matters, and everyone has the right to express it.
That is why, when we hear things on the radio that are offensive, by and large, we tolerate them.
But last week, Rush Limbaugh went way over the line – and while we respect his right to say anything he likes, his unpatriotic comments cannot be ignored.
During his show last Wednesday, Rush Limbaugh was engaged in one of his typical rants.
This rant was unremarkable and indistinguishable from his usual drivel, which has been steadily losing listeners for years -- until he crossed that line by calling our men and women in uniform who oppose the war in Iraq “phony soldiers.”
This comment was so beyond the pale of decency that it cannot be left alone.
And yet, he followed it up with denials and an attack on Congressman Jack Murtha, a 37-year active member of the Marine Corps.
M. President, we have been debating the Iraq war here in the Senate and throughout the country for not months, but years.
There are good, patriotic Americans who favor the war -- and good, patriotic Americans who oppose President Bush’s handling of it.
Neither party holds a patent on patriotism.
I know all my Republican colleagues would agree with that.
Yet Rush Limbaugh took it upon himself to attack the courage and character of those fighting and dying for him and for all of us.
Rush Limbaugh got himself a deferment from serving when he was a young man.
He never served in uniform.
He never saw in person the extreme difficulty of maintaining peace in a foreign country engaged in civil war.
Ye he thinks that his opinion on the war is worth more than those who are on the frontlines.
And what’s worse – Limbaugh’s show is broadcast on Armed Forces Radio --
-- Which means that thousands of troops overseas and veterans here at home were forced to hear this attack on their patriotism.
Rush Limbaugh owes the men and women of our Armed Forces an apology.
On Friday, many Democrats joined me in drafting a letter to the Chief Executive Officer of Clear Channel, Mark Mays that we will send out this week.
Here is what we wrote:
Dear Mr. Mays,
At the time we sign this letter, 3,801 American soldiers have been killed in Iraq, and another 27,936 have been wounded.
160,000 others awoke this morning on foreign sand, far from home, to face the danger and uncertainty of another day at war.
Although Americans of goodwill debate the merits of this war, we can all agree that those who serve with such great courage deserve our deepest respect and gratitude.
That is why Rush Limbaugh’s recent characterization of troops who oppose the war as “phony soldiers” is such an outrage.
Our troops are fighting and dying to bring to others the freedoms that many take for granted.
It is unconscionable that Mr. Limbaugh would criticize them for exercising the fundamentally American right to free speech.
Mr. Limbaugh has made outrageous remarks before, but this affront to our soldiers is beyond the pale.
The military, like any community within the United States, includes members both for and against the war.
Senior generals, such as General John Batiste and Paul Eaton, have come out against the war while others have publicly supported it.
A December 2006 poll conducted by the Military Times found just 35 percent of service members approved of President Bush’s handling of the war in Iraq, compared to 42 percent who disapproved.
From this figure alone, it is clear that Mr. Limbaugh’s insult is directed at thousands of American service members.
Active and retired members of our armed forces have a unique perspective on the war and offer a valuable contribution to our national debate.
In August, seven soldiers wrote an op-ed expressing their concern with the current strategy in Iraq.
Tragically, since then, two of those seven soldiers have made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq.
Thousands of active troops and veterans were subjected to Mr. Limbaugh’s unpatriotic and indefensible comments on your broadcast.
We trust you will agree that not a single one of our sons, daughters, neighbors and friends serving overseas is a “phony soldier.”
We call on you to publicly repudiate these comments that call into question their service and sacrifice and to ask Mr. Limbaugh to apologize for his comments.
M. President, just as patriotism is the exclusive realm of neither party, taking a stand against those who spew hate and impugn the integrity of our troops is a job that belongs to all of us.
I can’t help but wonder how my Republican colleagues would have reacted if the tables were turned – if a well-known Democratic radio personality had used the same insulting line of attack against troops who support the war.
The letter I read will be available on the Senate floor for the entire day. My colleagues on both sides of the aisle will have every chance to add their names to it, and I encourage all of us to do so.
If we take the Republican side at their word that last week’s vote on another controversial statement related to the war was truly about patriotism, not politics, then I have no doubt that they will stand with us against Limbaugh’s comments with equal fervor.
I am confident we will see Republicans join with us in overwhelming numbers. Anything less would betray a double standard that has no place in the United States Senate.
I ask my colleagues, Democrat and Republican alike, to join together against this irresponsible, hateful, and unpatriotic attack – by calling upon Rush Limbaugh to give our troops the apology they deserve.
Comments (57)
seanh wrote on October 1, 2007 2:51 PM:This exchange, considered alongside the General Betray Us spectacle, reminds me of a high school hallway slap fight. Each combatant at arms length, unwilling to commit to any real confrontation (or better yet, be the bigger man and walk away), hoping to embarrass their enemy with a devastating blow. Little does each fighter realize how absolutely ridiculous their fight looks to the rest of the high schoolers. I'd guess about 75% (give or take) of the students in this metaphor are either laughing, or lamenting the sorry state of hallway relations.
Again, this just reinforces why I support Obama.
Sen. Obama takes a walk
IRAQ WAR | Won't vote on measure condemning attack on general
WASHINGTON -- White House hopeful Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) canceled his campaign schedule on Thursday in order to be in the Senate for votes. But he was one of only three senators -- of either party -- to take a walk and not vote yes or no on a GOP measure to condemn an ad Moveon.org ran in the New York Times against Gen. David Petraeus.Obama said he did not vote because: "This amendment was a stunt designed only to score cheap political points while what we should be doing is focusing on the deadly serious challenge we face in Iraq.... By not casting a vote, I registered my protest against this empty politics. I registered my views on the ad itself the day it appeared."
...
Obama has a history going back to his days as a state senator of not voting or voting "present" when it comes to measures he considers designed specifically to produce a vote record that can be attacked.
Obama, you rule.
RobbyLove wrote on October 1, 2007 2:58 PM:What an embarrassment. Bush and the Repugs go ballistic over a MoveOn free speech matter, and then Reid slaps back over another quote that was taken out of context.
Do they want their approval ratings to drop into single digits? This is the most despised government (executive and legislative) in the history of polling and all they can do is continue to snipe and whine.
Fellow Americans: VOTE. THEM. OUT!!!!!!
Richard Joseph wrote on October 1, 2007 3:11 PM:That's fine about Obama, but what about his not voting on the Lieberman Iran resolution last week. Your argument could not apply to an issue as serious as likely war with Iran. Obama has spoken out against war with Iran but missed this extremely important vote. That is very disappointing.
LionelEHutz wrote on October 1, 2007 3:13 PM:Ohhhh a strongly worded letter. A typically weak response from the spineless Harry Reid.
Michael Cummings wrote on October 1, 2007 3:17 PM:You jackasses need to get your facts straight. Media Matters (Damn the facts, full speed ahead with lies) didn't bother to check the entire transcript of the show, which I heard and read so I know it is true.
He was referring to Jesse McBeth, a convicted felon who was paraded by the liberal media as a hero when he claimed that he, as a corporal in the Rangers, witnessed atrocities in Iraq. Jesse McBeth washed out of the Army after 44 days. He never made it through boot camp. He was never a Ranger nor did he ever set foot in Iraq.
He claimed to have been wounded in combat and received a Purple Heart. That lie and other false statements made in an attempt to get Veterans’ benefits he didn't earn got him a 5 year prison sentence.
That was the "phony soldier" he referred to. You people can't even get your facts straight when they are right in front of your face.
Please grow a brain. I expect stupidity out of politicians like Reid and Pelosi, with their arrogance they can't stop themselves. The rest of you liberals socialists need to go back and read the constitution again.
It's a good thing that breathing is a reflex, otherwise many of you would be dead because you would likely forget to take a breathe.
P J Evans wrote on October 1, 2007 3:27 PM:Ah, we have a dittohead come to tell us the 'Rush' version of the story. They've shown up everywhere that has condemned the remarks, always with the same line: Limpdick was talking about Jesse Macbeth, not every soldier - even though he clearly used the word 'soldiers'. Even though the version on his website was clearly edited and didn't match the recording of the original broadcast. Even though the transcript is *from* the original broadcast.
If Limpdick is so sure he knows what a 'phony' soldier is, why isn't he in Iraq himself, demonstrating what a 'real' soldier is?
chele wrote on October 1, 2007 3:27 PM:Obama's actions (or lack thereof) could be construed as an unwillingness to take a stand for the record -- an attempt to have his cake and eat it too.
JimBob wrote on October 1, 2007 3:31 PM:Christ, what's happening? Congress is passing resolutions about newspaper ads and Senators are pontificating about radio personalities. Next thing you know, Brad Pitt's gonna be getting on a soap box to condemn the tabs' coverage of his latest relationship.
chimp wrote on October 1, 2007 3:31 PM:My understanding on the Lieberman/Kyl Iran resolution is that Obama was led to believe there was not going to be a vote on it.
This move by Reid is a stunt, but having such a slim majority with a minority so eager to filibuster, stunts seem to be all that's left.
As a stunt, I would say it's a good one. It sure puts a good poke in the eye at those flag-drapers who made hay over MoveOn.
TritoneSub wrote on October 1, 2007 3:32 PM:Mr. Cummings,
1 minute and 35 seconds after the "Phoney soldiers" comment he discussed this soldier. His transcript omitted that and he claimed it was a full transcript. Perhaps you should take some of your own advice and check out the facts instead of just assuming that Limbaugh would not mislead you.
Alan Ruffel wrote on October 1, 2007 3:33 PM:It would be nice if Michael Cummings got his facts right. You can listen to the whole tape on Media Matters. There is NO reference to a Jesse McBeth in the conservation. Hate and distortions, that is all we are getting from a large section of the media. It is getting ugly out there.
Glen wrote on October 1, 2007 3:36 PM:Michael, you have to remember. Facts are not relevant to the communists uhmm I mean democrats. You have to out and out just lie to further their agenda. Notice the very next comment called you a dittohead, Rush a limpdick. Remember democrats have NO ideas so they can't debate you. That's they way the communists work, uumm I did it again I mean democrats. Who we kidding are they not one in the same?
Michael Cummings wrote on October 1, 2007 3:36 PM:No Ditto Head, Mr Socialist. Wonder if you served our country? Maybe you had a child that spent time in Iraq.
I'm a proud father of a US Marine that came back decorated for his actions.
And the word "soldiers" is accurate. Because we have a lot of "phony soldiers" claiming things that never happened. Even benefits they are not entitled. Perhaps because "socialists" believe that the government should take care of them they don't mind lieing about their lives.
That's why we have the laws that put Mr. McBeth away.
I noticed you didn't dispute my comments on the facts. Like all socialists you just throw more lies to shield your own ignorance or cowardice, probably both.
Ohhh ... you can breathe now. I wouldn't want you to crap yourself, more of my tax dollars would be wasted keeping you feed and cleaned up.
seanh wrote on October 1, 2007 3:39 PM:Richard Joseph wrote on October 1, 2007 3:11 PM:
That's fine about Obama, but what about his not voting on the Lieberman Iran resolution last week. Your argument could not apply to an issue as serious as likely war with Iran. Obama has spoken out against war with Iran but missed this extremely important vote. That is very disappointing.
I am very disappointed he didn't cast a vote for that resolution, nor did he take the opportunity to explain his absence in the debate later that night when Gravel called him out. The same logic might be at work with his decision to skip that vote, but why not defend that decision during the debate? Hillary Clinton had time to defend her Yea. I'm sure Russert would have allowed Obama the time if he had asked for it.
Here's what I could find about Obama's stance on the issue
Obama Statement On the Kyl-Lieberman Iran Amendment
Senator Obama clearly recognizes the serious threat posed by Iran. However, he does not agree with the President that the best way to counter that threat is to keep large numbers of troops in Iraq, and he does not think that now is the time for saber-rattling towards Iran. In fact, he thinks that our large troop presence in Iraq has served to strengthen Iran - not weaken it. He believes that diplomacy and economic pressure, such as the divestment bill that he has proposed, is the right way to pressure the Iranian regime. Accordingly, he would have opposed the Kyl-Lieberman amendment had he been able to vote today.
Apparently, it wasn't clear when the vote was happening. I guess Reid called for a vote earlier than anticipated, according to some sources. Senate procedures are still a mystery to me, so I can't confirm or deny the validity of that claim. I don't mean to excuse Obama, especially since he isn't making his stance on this issue very clear (no official mention of the vote whatsoever on his website -- he's lucky the MSM/blogs aren't pressing him on it), but apparently the same "virus" that some have used to explain his poor debate performance on that night is also responsible for his absence in the Senate.
TritoneSub wrote on October 1, 2007 3:44 PM:Cummings,
You've completely lost the plot. Stop your bleating and head on over to Little Green Footballs where you can thump your chest with people who agree with you. You just go to prove what I've always said: some people will eat a shit sandwich if it's made with red-white-and-blue bread.
I heard Lush that day.
He did not reference any single soldier.
Such a lying sack of bovine fertilizer. Broadcasting such crap on Armed Forces Radio, did the moron forget?
Hell, Lush, the voice of the GOP, that has to bring his own supply of Viagra to visit the young boys in Haiti.
Bob Kutz wrote on October 1, 2007 3:50 PM:want another phony soldier?
ever hear of this guy?
Army Private Scott Thomas Beauchamp
any doubts who Rush was referring to?
This Jesse guy was a piker next to Scott
No appology necessary.
brendancalling wrote on October 1, 2007 3:52 PM:that's hilarious.
the whole thing is howlingly funny.
Reid's gambit won't work. everyone know the democrats are a bunch of pussies, which is why no one respects them (even democrats like myself).
This is like the weakling who gets beat up by the bully, but then shakes his fist and says "yeah, well... um. yeah, well but YOU'RE A DICK."
I'd feel bad for Harry and his gang of chumps, but they've been letting us down for so long, you just have to laugh at them.
TritoneSub wrote on October 1, 2007 3:54 PM:Someone's been reading Bob Owens...
Gonna help him buy that new grill?
RobbyLove wrote on October 1, 2007 3:54 PM:This is exactly how our leaders keep from getting anything done. They get their followers to argue over some idiotic issue to distract them from the things that really need to get done.
Then these same sheeple vote the same reps back into office, where they once again accomplish nothing.
Stop arguing with each other and focus on the real enemy: i.e. our representatives who are NOT doing what we voted for them to do!
If I could do nothing but yell about MoveOn and Rush Limbaugh and get paid $150k per year (with a pension), I'd sign up in a heartbeat. The United States Congress is the largest entitlement program in America. They don't have to DO **ANYTHING**! Doesn't that anger anyone but me?
TritoneSub wrote on October 1, 2007 4:00 PM:So Brendan, do you admire the bully as much as you despise the wimp? I don't think I want to know how you'd like to see that scenario you envision come to a satisfactory conclusion. You can be defiant and still not answer with a blow. Not that I think this is a particularly strong move on Reid's part. In fact I think it a little childish. Better to have laughed that stupid resolution on MoveOn out of the Senate chamber.
NOC wrote on October 1, 2007 4:15 PM:Actually, I think this tactic works. It does not waste time like the MoveOn debacle. But it publically forces the Elephants to take a stand on their rhetoric from last week about honoring those who serve. I suspect SEN Reid will at least get all the R's running for re-election to sign the letter; would you want a copy of this letter, minus your signature, beamed into living rooms during your opponent's ad campaigns?
A nice, subtle touch. Put up or shut up time, Elephants.
As for PillBoy, shrug. He can spin like a turbine, but the original transcript is out there.
Aside to Mr. Cummings: I'll ask in return: did YOU ever serve in the military? Your son's service counts for him....not you. As my son's service counts for him...not me. And since you'll ask, yes, I served...and still serve in the USAR. And, yes, I spent a year in Iraq ducking mortars and providing mental health services to my brothers and sisters in arms. I saw no point in our forces being there then, and less point in their being there now. I want my brothers and sisters home, unlike those of you who believe an unending tour of duty is proper. If Blimpaugh thinks I'm a "phony soldier" because of my beliefs, that's his right. He just needs to remember that it's us "phony soldiers", who've put our right hands up and served (unlike his lazy ass), who continue to protect and defend his right to smear us. And, I guess, defend your right to smear us as well.
NOC
phil james wrote on October 1, 2007 4:16 PM:Pathetic. Not only did Reid allow the vote on the absurd condemnation of the MoveOn ad (free speech) but he vents on this non-issue (more free speech). Next there will be a resolution condemning impure thoughts and lusting in one's heart. Reid and his fellow Dem Senators are showing where the strength of the party lies. That is no where within the halls of Congress. Meanwhile the soldiers they are trying to "protect" with their anti-sticks-and-stones bushwah are dying in Iraq so the little boy-King doesn't have to admit he made a catastrophic error in invading Iraq. Just pathetic.
Jack Newhouse wrote on October 1, 2007 4:19 PM:Michael Cummings,
Perhaps, as you say, you are the father of a U.S. Marine, but your grammar, spelling, and argumentation are those of a poorly schooled adolescent. If you would like to be taken seriously, it would be wise to slow down and attempt to communicate like an adult.
copperpenny1954 wrote on October 1, 2007 4:19 PM:All of this crying over what Rush was supposed to have said, yet...silence on Murtha calling the Marines murderers and such.
The transcript does not lie. Those who have read and heard the transcript know what Rush said.
Clean up your own mess liberals, before trying to pin one on Rush.
Ferruge wrote on October 1, 2007 4:43 PM:It's funny to see the Dittoheads frothing at the mouth with all these excuses for their cult hero. But it's also sad to see how pathetically they debase themselves in an attempt to salvage his already rotten reputation as a shitflinger.
As usual, they like to dish it out, but they sure can't take it. Pretty much the definition of a chickenhawk.
Ferruge wrote on October 1, 2007 4:52 PM:Actually, Glen, when it comes to revisionist history and selective editing of transcripts and broadcasts, the rightwing noise machine to which you are beholden bears a lot more commonality with the former eastern-bloc Communist government propaganda arms than you'll ever admit. Stalin would be proud of you guys!
EH wrote on October 1, 2007 4:52 PM:copperpenny1954: Well, isn't it reasonable in this context to assume Murtha was only referring to those Marines who actually are murderers (of which there are a few)? Let's compare apples to apples. If we have to parse Limbaugh's words in the light that is most favorable to him, you have to do the same with everyone. Well, maybe not: inconsistency isn't illegal.
Hank Essay wrote on October 1, 2007 4:55 PM:Audiotape, like Google and videotape, continue to be a dittohead's worst nightmare....I mean we know Limpdick's clip was edited. WE ALL KNOW IT. We have the audio, you stupid thugs.....Do you think we are stupid?
Dismayed Liberal wrote on October 1, 2007 5:02 PM:Reid's position today was better than I expected out of the Senate Democrats, but contrast that with the House Republicans that had the gall to introduce a Resolution supporting(!) Rush on the floor.
We can't fight these people with both hands behind our backs and win, guys. We need to hit back as hard as they are striking out at us, or else we're just conceding defeat.
The House Resolution needs to get voted down party-line and the Democrats have to introduce a counter-resolution and pass it.
unclesmedley wrote on October 1, 2007 5:03 PM:Inanity abounds. Rush is an obnoxious gasbag of long standing, but in giving the devil his due, it must be said that he can conjur up publicity and polarize society with the best of them.
Harry Reed is an admixture of Mr. Peepers and Elwood P. Dowd without the redeeming features of either. That he is the majority leader is sad indeed.
Together they are like a Bizzaro version of George H.w. BUsh and Bill Clinton doing tsunami relief. Petty, peevish, off-putting and juvenile.
America, America. God shed his grace on thee--cause we need it badly.
We now have two resolutions: one against and one for Limbaugh. Dear God, could it get any more ridiculous?
Where are the bills on Social Security, national health care, global warming, defense authorizations, ending the war and so on?
This is what we get? THIS?!! Our representatives feel that Rush Limbaugh is the most important topic in the country...so important that they feel compelled to introduce not one but TWO resolutions. Ummm, right. Gotcha.
Stop the frickin world I want to get off.
PretzelsOne wrote on October 1, 2007 5:05 PM:I sent the following message to Senator John Cornyn, the guy who introduced the resolution condemning MoveOn.org for its Petraeus ad. I don't expect a response. Republicans are such hypocrites that they don't recognize they are being hypocrities.
"Dear Senator Cornyn:
I am writing to ask that you condemn with the same vigor you condemned
the MoveOn.org ad in The New York Times the outrageous comments by Rush
Limbaugh regarding 'phony soldiers' who fight but no longer support the war.
Regardless of their individual feelings, these young men and women continue to do their duty in very difficult circumstances, and as a veteran myself, I found Mr. Limbaugh's comments to be personally offensive, insensitive, and disrespectul to people who are doing their best to serve their country. I am even more offended that such a comment would come from a man who could have but never served a day in the military.
I thought the MoveOn.org ad was disrespectful and offensive as well, but at least General Petraeus is paid to take that kind of criticism, especially when he becomes involved in making policy decisions rather than carrying them out. Our soldiers are not.
Consequently, I call upon you to introduce another resolution rejecting
Mr. Limbaugh's comments and condemning him for having made it. Our troops deserve no less.
Thank you for your attention."
I don't want a resolution condemning Limbaugh from Democrats. I want is from this phony patriot Repbublicans.
Lord, Dittoheads, LISTEN to the broadcast available at any number of places, and stop drooling over what your impotent lord cut and snip as his versions of events. He makes absolutely no reference to McBeth until well after the "phony soldiers" remark which was clearly in reference to soldiers who hold political beliefs inapposite to those Rush spoon feeds you.
You can always tell when the wingers have been caught - they flail about, bark, lie, and revise in a perfectly rabid frenzy.
Ferruge wrote on October 1, 2007 5:24 PM:I saw that appeal to John Cornyn to condemn Limbaugh. You may as well hope that shit will unfling itself from your front door.
The real problem last week wasn't that the Repubs all lined up to support this anti-MoveOn stupidity - that kind of symbolic, impish behavior is expected on their part - it was the Democrats who joined in thinking that this would somehow curry some favor among their rabid rightwing colleagues. This is what I can't fathom. Haven't the last 12 years taught them anything about the current incarnation of the Republican Party?
tbhull wrote on October 1, 2007 5:55 PM:This meaningless inane bullshit Kubaki continues while the war rages, perhaps even expands and people die for no good reason.
Limbaugh is a bloated turd and Reid is an insufferable snatch who dodge real issues.
Ken and Barbie on the Potomac.
HRC's vanity and bloodthirst for attention will cause her to soon enter this charade.
Are there any real leaders out there?
OxyCon wrote on October 1, 2007 6:07 PM:While the Deomcrats are too lilly livered to mount an actual condemnation of Rush, the House Repubs are busy introducing legislation commending him.
Way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory again, Democrats!
I hope some day before I die, I might just see the Democrats grow a damned pair and learn how to punch back, instead of assuming the fetal position in the corner.
Why is a troop basher like Rush being broacast to the troops?
Mr. Cummings. I'm a veteran, and I heard the tape of the radio broadcast, and there is no doubt that Mr. Limbaugh was talking about all service members who express opposition to the President's policies, not just a single individual who was misrepresenting his service. Unfortunately veterans such as myself have been called unpatriotic, communists, America haters, traitors, and worse by Republican politicians and right wing media talking heads. The saddest part is that most if not all of them have never found the time to serve their country themselves. They are cowards of the highest order.
andrew wrote on October 1, 2007 6:56 PM:isn't it a likely explanation that Rush said "phony soldiers" while interrupting the supportive caller because he had just been suggesting that the previous caller (and subject of discussion) was lying?
Rush had just accused the previous caller of lying about being a republican and soldier. seems he was just continuing that rant.
Listening to that segment reminds me that political discourse is a major problem. i heard alot of yelling and stupidity.
sure would be nice if, on this forum, i wasn't seeing the same hyperbole.
i wish we Democratics could do something meaningful in response to the time-waste of the move-on resolution. One meaningful response might, just might, be to rise above the BS.
Righteous Bubba wrote on October 1, 2007 8:37 PM:Clean up your own mess liberals, before trying to pin one on Rush.
You mean that fat drug addict who gets caught with viagra in the Dominican Republic? A saint. Thank god the ACLU went to bat for him.
Mark wrote on October 1, 2007 9:57 PM:Take Limbaugh and Harry Reid to any U.S. Military installation in the world, and see who gets a friendlier reception from the troops. Rush wins hands down. They know he was talking about people who have made claims about things they have never done, and that his support for the military over the years has been solid.
john wrote on October 1, 2007 10:02 PM:Tit for tat is the optimal strategy for the evolution of cooperation, and Reid did exactly the right thing.
Of course he should not have let the MoveOn charade proceed to the floor, but once that happened, he absolutely had to respond in kind at the earliest possible opportunity.
Now I hope he'll move on to doing some real work.
If you're not familiar with Axelrod's work (see link above) you should get familiar. It explains a lot about how "above all that" Democrats set themselves up as patsies for bullies time and time agin.
We should not become bullies, but when a bully hits you, you hit back. This is an irreducible strategic truth.
Tim Kane wrote on October 1, 2007 10:17 PM:Tit-for-tat is a fundamental instrument in Game Theory necessary for civility and cooperation to be the norm rather than the exception.
I punch you in the nose. You punch me back. If I want you to stop punching me in the nose, I have to stop punching you in the nose.
Reid's act is fundamental to ending this kabuki theater in politics.
The Republican's will be uncivil in some of the most base ways possible as long as they can get away with it without being punched back.
It's that simple, it's that complex.
You want to stop swiftboating, swiftboat them back.
You want congress to elevate it's concerns? Then allow Reid to punch back. Once the Republicans have had their noses punched in enough out of retaliation for their prior acts, then they'll settle down to doing the things that they are supposed to do.
Republicans act out vulgarity, mockingly so, because they think they can do so with impunity.
Hitler invaded Poland for the same reasons. He didn't think the western allies had it in them to punch back with adequate force. The rest is history.
Interesting how the discussion has evolved on this matter.
Mr. Newhouse, why is it people comment not on the substance of an argument, only it’s format? I’m sorry that my frank and candid writing style does not meet with your approval. The facts stay remain. Media Matters is wrong and so is Senator Reid. And you add othing to the discussion.
And to Mr. NOC, an aside in return. No I didn’t serve my country in the armed service. I “volunteered” in the emergency services of my community for 13 years. None the less, your service is to be commended, regardless of whether you and I are on opposite sides of this debate. The military needs health professionals to support the troops in harms way. That said, let’s not give anyone the impression that those who spent the vast majority (if not all) of their time “inside the wire” can lay claim to the same experience as those who walked a patrol or did recon duty 3 – 5 clicks out in front of convoys as my son did. I may not have stood a post, however I have felt the emptiness of having a child in harm’s way. There is no feeling I can imagine that is as helpless as a parent who waits anxiously for the next call from their child serving in a combat zone when all one can hear or see is the violence of war as portrayed, biased or not, in the media.
Mr. TritoneSub: Plot? I think you’ve been drinking too much kool-aid. What does your pseudonym really mean. No name so apparently you like to hide behind your anonymity. Glad you have all that time to surf the internet finding sites like LGF. I do engage with people who have different opinions, at least they try to come up with ideas to discuss, not just throw around insults.
To Eric. Sir, I appreciate your service and respectfully, I don’t agree with your assessment of Limbaugh’s statements. He was referring to people that falsely portray themselves as veterans. When they make false claims to get attention, then I would expect all veterans to condemn these “posers” as they should never be taken seriously. It’s frustrating when news people don’t validate their sources. Then people like Jesse Macbeth won’t make matters worse. I think we would agree, this does not help us get to any consensus on moving forward.
I disagree with those who characterized you in such a negative way. I expect that as a man of honor that you would not miss represent your experiences while in Iraq. I can only tell you I have not had the chance to speak to many who feel as you apparently do. Best of luck to you.
I heard what the fat head Rush said. This gutless pig should be stripped of his citizenship and sent to Saudi to find and kill the fascist Islam terrorist with nothing more then a golf club.
Punks like Rush make money off the war by cheer leading then have the nerve to demean the soldiers and Marines who fight the war and are critical of the most poorly run war in our history?
You poor hypocritical Republicans are without shame. Sign your sons and daughters over to the war effort, I'm talking about the Bush kids and Mitt's five able bodied sons going and taking the same chances that the children of the poor do. Let your blood support the war.
If the war isn't worth the draft, it isn't supported by the people and shouldn't be fought.
Bob Loblaw wrote on October 2, 2007 1:02 AM:I expect that as a man of honor that you would not miss represent your experiences while in Iraq.
You issue that veiled threat against all the veterans you meet? Or just the ones who vote against you politically?
Jeez, these Rush-toadies are a piece of work. Another implication, this time toned down, that liberal soldiers are 'phonies'. Even the ones the pretend to be civil are jerks of the highest order.
AKHarpboy wrote on October 2, 2007 2:22 AM:Someone please run the dittohead trolls out of here, they're taking over. We don't need their spew here, they can go to FreeRepuke.
Ed d wrote on October 2, 2007 3:15 AM:Lying chickenhawk dittoheads are not trolls, they're just blowhards who hide behind the honorable service of their Marine sons, as if that made up for their cowardice and their worship of drug addicted, draft dodging perverts like el limbaugh.
Limbaugh is a sniveling coward who breaks into a sweat and soils himself whenever he thinks he might have to go one-on-one with anyone other than his fellow sniveling cowards, such as Bush or Cheney.
Gopher Interloper wrote on October 2, 2007 4:06 AM:-- Just for the heck of it, let's talk about the ACTUAL subject of this article, which is what Harry Reid said:
"Rush Limbaugh went way over the line – and while we respect his right to say anything he likes, his unpatriotic comments cannot be ignored."
-- The "line" between what, patriotic and unpatriotic speech? If every adult in the US was surveyed on where that line is, I wonder how large the gray area around it would be. Maybe the line is where one person CALLS another person "unpatriotic", without ANY proof that the accused does not love his country? The resolution that repudiated the MoveOn.org ad did not question anyone's patriotism; Limbaugh did not question anyone's patriotism. The MoveOn add used the words "betray us". "us" denotes all of us, meaning the country as a whole; in that context, "betray" means 'commit an act of treason', which someone who IS patriotic would not do. In his comments, Harry Reid refers to Limbaugh's words -- and through them the man himself -- as "unpatriotic" three times.
"Limbaugh’s show is broadcast on Armed Forces Radio, which means that thousands of troops overseas and veterans here at home were forced to hear this attack on their patriotism."
-- "Forced"? I wonder if the official call for the return of the Fairness Doctrine will make use of the term "forced". I wonder if Sen. Reid knows that each AFR station has a variety of programming from which it can CHOOSE what it broadcasts. I wonder if ANYONE listening to AFR actually heard the "phony soldiers" remark, since even the stations that do broadcast his show only play one hour of Rush's three hour show; and even if some of them did. ...
"This rant was unremarkable and indistinguishable from his usual drivel, which has been steadily losing listeners for years -- until he crossed that line by calling our men and women in uniform who oppose the war in Iraq “phony soldiers.”
-- Nice jab of pettiness there, Harry. His show is number one (13.5 million listeners in the US, plus AFR overseas) and he is the highest paid personality on radio. Also, I wasn't aware that he called EVERY soldier who opposes the war "phony", just those who have done so through the mass media.
"He never saw in person the extreme difficulty of maintaining peace in a foreign country engaged in civil war. Yet he thinks that his opinion on the war is worth more than those who are on the frontlines."
-- The old "those who can, do; those who can't, criticize" argument.
"Rush Limbaugh owes the men and women of our Armed Forces an apology."
-- Funny, I don't remember the resolution on Gen. Petraeus calling for MoveOn.org to do a single thing; I don't remember Rush calling for the "phony soldiers" to do a single thing.
"I am confident we will see Republicans join with us in overwhelming numbers. Anything less would betray a double standard that has no place in the United States Senate."
-- There's that word again, "betray". So now any Republican who doesn't vote FOR this resolution will be branded as unpatriotic? What, we say it all the time now?
From his letter to Mr. Mays:
"We trust you will agree that not a single one of our sons, daughters, neighbors and friends serving overseas is a “phony soldier.”
-- That's right, supporting the troops means never saying a mean word against "a single one" of them ... unless your name's Murtha. THEN you can spread the word "murderers" with a broad brush, right? Wrong. Support every soldier and Marine going in, and hold to account every single one of them who does not live up to expectations.
NOC wrote on October 2, 2007 8:00 AM:M Cummings:
I'll accept the "inside the wire" snark from anyone who's been over there running convoys or security patrols. I won't accept it from someone who's never put his hand up and gone in harm's way.
At LSA Anaconda, throughout 2004, there were almost daily mortarings which hit the base. We were lucky, and lost relatively few soldiers to the strikes. But the sound of rounds going overhead certainly adjusts one's attitudes and priorities in a hurry. To cut off a possible retort: there is no "safe" area in Iraq north of the Kuwaiti berm.
I did only a few convoys; one did happen to be in downtown Najaf when Sadr's folks got nasty in May 04. I also had the pleasure of trying to sleep in a gutted university building there while small arms rounds pinged off the bricks outside. Wonderful sleep aid, that. I did my job to the best of my abilities and know that what I did helped a not small number of soldiers.
I'd advise you, or anyone else not having served, to keep the snarky comments about what any of us did to yourselves. If you ain't walked in the boots, you ain't got a clue.
NOC
Anonymous wrote on October 2, 2007 11:42 AM:EH - You got it ALMOST right. Murtha wasn't referring to all Marines, but he also wasn't referring to those Marines who actually are murderers. He was specifically referring to a small group of Marines who had been ACCUSED of murder. All the evidence was not in and no one had been court martialed, much less convicted, at the time. As of now most if not all of the Marines who he called murderers have been exonerated. He drug their names through the mud on national television, he should make his apology at least as public and direct.
EH - You got it ALMOST right. Murtha wasn't referring to all Marines, but he also wasn't referring to Marines who actually are murderers. He was referring specifically to a small group of Marines who had been ACCUSED of murder. At the time all of the evidence was not in and the investigation was still underway. No one had been court martialed, much less convicted. As of now most if not all of them have been exonerated.
He drug their names through the mud on national television. He owes them an apology that's at least as direct and public as his original accusation. I'm not holding my breath.
Kevin, OH wrote on October 2, 2007 12:12 PM:This is sick and perverse. Rush Limbaugh is documented to be one of the most avid supporters of the troops.
See my blog for details:
http://millerkevd.wordpress.com/
Cummings,
Yeah, you don't throw around insults. My pseudonym is a reference to jazz harmonic theory. I served my country in the Navy for six years. You can kiss my ass.
Nick wrote on October 17, 2007 5:05 PM:Arrgh! I interrupt this scrum for the quick picking of a nit.
Using Saudi as shorthand for Saudi Arabia is like using North as shorthand for North Dakota.
Please use Arabia instead of Saudi if you're not going to use Saudi Arabia.
Now, back to the arguing.
Anonymous wrote on October 19, 2007 2:44 PM:
HARRY REID SHOULD BE DEPORTED HE AND PELOSI MURTHA SHOULD BE JAILED THEN DEPORTED O YES TAKE TEDDY BOY WITH YOU
