Biden Spokesman: There Are No Discussions Of Any Deal With Obama Camp

Comments (117)

DRinOH wrote on January 3, 2008 12:47 PM:

This sort of antidemocratic brokering, while part-in-parcel with the Iowa caucus system, is obviously not the kind thing candidates would even tacitly acknowledge.

My suspicion: where there's smoke, there's fire.

grover_rover wrote on January 3, 2008 12:49 PM:

rumors rumors everywhere today

phil james wrote on January 3, 2008 12:50 PM:

While smoking cigars in a back room? Right. Nothing like secret deal making to further the interests of the Democratic process.

john mccutchen wrote on January 3, 2008 12:52 PM:

Looks like Obama takes it going away

Jeff wrote on January 3, 2008 12:54 PM:

Let's recall that for such brokering to actually work, the voters, each and every one, have to agree to it. I.e., it's still really up to the voters. Doesn't sound so terribly "undemocratic" to me...

Keith wrote on January 3, 2008 12:55 PM:

Iowa Chaos or Caucus? You decide!

lampwick wrote on January 3, 2008 12:59 PM:

If this brokering is to mean anything at all, it has to reach the precinct captains; if it doesn't, it's obviously useless.

So why do all these investigative reporters spend all their time going to campaign spokesmen, who may not want to go public with it anyway? Track down some precinct captains and get one of them to talk!!

NCSteve wrote on January 3, 2008 1:01 PM:

"No deals" and "no talks" is not the same thing as "no unilateral strategy by one campaign that is communicated to another as a 'courtesy.'"

Of course no one in the second tier is going to admit that he's even thinking about second choice instructions. That's a self-defeating admission. Of course no one in the first tier is going to piss off the second tier candidate's people by admitting that they've received such a communication from a second tier's campaign. And, of course, no one, but no one, is going to admit they've had speculative discussions about whether the good will purchased by a second tier candidate giving such a unilateral instruction might pay a dividend somewhere down the line.

LJ wrote on January 3, 2008 1:05 PM:

One person one vote seems Democratic. The 15% threshold doesn't.

Anybody know the origins of the 15% threshold?

DRinOH wrote on January 3, 2008 1:12 PM:

LJ,

The idea of an election, at least in a plurality system as opposed to the European model, is to pick a winner, not a 6th place finisher. If you ask me, I like the viability threshold. If you don't like my opinion, ask Al Gore what he thinks about voting for non-viable candidates.

DRinOH wrote on January 3, 2008 1:17 PM:

Before someone says it, I'll acknowledge that my analysis applies to a general election, and not a primary, where one can get some momentum out of a second or third place finish (ask Edwards).

Still, with a viability threshold of 15%, it's not likely that there's going to be any great loss of momentum for a non-viable candidate. In an election such as this one where the winner will be at or near 40%, and third place will be above 25%, it's not likely that the difference between 14% and 5% will be all that meaningful. You aren't going to get much credit or attention for either.

Tom wrote on January 3, 2008 1:29 PM:

Who cares who Biden deals with? It's not like he has much support anyway. As Joe Trippi pointed out, the 2nd-tier candidates this time are have almost no support, so picking up their 2nd choice support is meaningless. Edwards will win without doing any backroom deals. He's going to win on the strength of Iowans.

horizonr wrote on January 3, 2008 1:30 PM:

Assuming that what Biden and Richardson really want is State, it is perfectly reasonable for them to instruct their supporters to caucus for Obama in places where they are not viable, if -- and this is an important "if" -- they know that Clinton already has promised State to someone else.

Word on the street is that Clinton's "someone" for State is longtime Clinton toady Richard Holbrooke.

Holbrooke has been one of Clinton's chief lieutenants and one of her most tireless behind-the-scenes arm twisters, from the get-go. He was one of those who leaned very hard -- thuggishly hard, by some accounts -- on Democratic insiders, to lock in their early support and push the meme that Clinton's nomination was a fait accompli.

Someone like Richard Holbrooke doesn't do that for nothing.

Greg DeLassus wrote on January 3, 2008 1:58 PM:

Edwards will win without doing any backroom deals. He's going to win on the strength of Iowans.

An entirely plausible prediction, that. I have been nothing but impressed with Edwards to date, both as a communicator and as a formulator of policy. I am hoping for Obama, but would not be at all disappointed if Edwards were to take the nomination.

Anonymous wrote on January 3, 2008 2:01 PM:

The report is “completely false,� said Richardson campaign spokeswoman Katie Roberts.

“We are viable throughout Iowa. We have strong support throughout the state and are looking forward to tonight,� she said. “This is just last-minute rumor buzz that has no truth to it. The Richardson for President campaign is looking forward to finishing in the final four and moving on to the New Hampshire primary.�

Blue in IA wrote on January 3, 2008 2:05 PM:

LJ -- I don't know the history in any great detail, but the 15% threshold has to do with the fact that precinct caucuses are awarding county-level delegates. Each precinct only has a certain number of county delegates to award, so the viability number cuts out candidates who won't receive any delegates. The threshold is different for very small precincts that are awarding fewer than 4 county delegates. At the end of the night, the county delegate numbers (I think there are around 4,000 of them to give out) then get translated back into percentages that become the "results" of the Iowa caucus as explained by the national media.

heretic wrote on January 3, 2008 2:09 PM:

I haven't read all the comments here, but I assume I am not the only who sees how corrupt this process is. It is not even remotely a popular vote. It is classical backroom dealing, except instead of party elites in smoky rooms, it is small groups of zealots wrangling with each other for whatever position they can eke out. Everybody wants Hillary to lose so her inevitability is thwarted for a few more days. Like Biden, Dodd, or Kucinich have a chance in hell, regardless. But, remember, camp Hillary has never really thought they had a chance here. They gave it a ponder after Edward tanked in the polls a few months back, but it has never been part of the game plan. NH is a way bigger deal. I am sure we will here the gloating from the Obama worshipers late tonight, but it may turn out to be premature. Luckily, I live in Georgia. So, if Obama wins the nomination, I'll just vote Republican to show my contempt for him. It won't actually affect the outcome, since all Dems will lose down here whether I vote for them or not. But I really want him to do poorly in the popular vote so he understands that he ain't all that.

Mike M. wrote on January 3, 2008 2:13 PM:

Remember that if it turns out there is a deal that the spokesmen for both campaigns flat out lied today.

Greg DeLassus wrote on January 3, 2008 2:14 PM:

I live in Georgia. So, if Obama wins the nomination, I'll just vote Republican to show my contempt for him.

Fair enough, of course. Your vote is yours to dispose of as you see fit. That said, I really hope that MonaL is following this thread, as she expressed incredulity when I told her that there were Clinton supporters who insist that they will not support Obama, just as there are Obama supporters who (quite unwisely) insist that they will never support Clinton.

Here you go, dear MonaL. I am not simply making this stuff up to cover the sins of the more boorish members of my own camp.

Greg DeLassus wrote on January 3, 2008 2:16 PM:

Remember that if it turns out there is a deal that the spokesmen for both campaigns flat out lied today.

Call me crazy, but somehow I do not think that it will require a lot of effort to to remember that politicians and their campaign spokesmen have lied to us. More often than just this particular instance, in fact. I dare say that this is part of the process.

eric wrote on January 3, 2008 2:16 PM:

To be clear, you can't "promise" a job to anyone in return for support. And in my experience, it really isn't done. Sure, there may be person to person winks and nods and "I would be *very* thankful for your support", but it really doesn't go beyond that.

john mccutchen wrote on January 3, 2008 2:28 PM:

When the Inevitable Isn't

Spinning to Lose:
Bill Clinton says Hillary doesn't have to win Iowa

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/

hello_world wrote on January 3, 2008 2:31 PM:

Here's my take on what may be happening in the backrooms out there. Mind you, this is blatant, and probably irresponsible speculation that means nothing.

Obama is shoring up his support. He's so close, his guys can taste it, but they need to keep pressure to protect themselves against an 11th hour deal brokered by one of the two other majors that'll sink him like Dean got sunk in '04. He's already gotten Kucinich's support, and is obviously hard at work at getting more.

Biden is very very interesting. I don't get the feeling that he's done running yet, and his supporters are obviously hoping a solid showing in Iowa will raise his standing as the one candidate with a LEGIT claim to the experience tag. But Joe has to be looking at what happens after the rush of Iowa and NH, when the lesser campaigns are forced out of the race. I agree with the poster who said that where there's smoke, there's fire. I also get the feeling the Joe would rather take a high cabinet position in an Obama administration than a Clinton one, where he'd have much less visibility. Again, entirely speculation, but I get the feeling that Joe is sincere when he says he likes Obama, and might be willing to team up with him longterm.

Richardson is also interesting, but for different reasons. Again, he's competing for that 4th place spot, and a chance to stay in this thing. The difference is, he's got close ties to Clinton already, and if he can stay afloat until Nevada, he might still turn some heads. Richardson rumors didn't start until the Biden stuff was already out, so I'm going to go with the assumption that his camp floated those rumors, and that this won't necessarily translate into support for Obama. But it does mean that his votes most definitely are now for sale to the highest bidder. And if Richardson's votes are in play, Obama's camp honestly shouldn't be counting them just yet.

Again, pure idle speculation. I expect there to be a lot of backroom wheeling and dealing before this day is over, that's for sure. Maybe not Democracy at it's finest, but it sure tests the political acumen of each campaign.

LJ wrote on January 3, 2008 2:35 PM:

DRinOH:

Couldn't disagree more. A candidate who doesn't meet the 15% rule in one precinct very well might pass the threshold in another. Therefore whether or not my vote counts depends on which precinct I am arbitrarily assigned. You're free to like such a system if you wish, but from my perspective any system that arbitrarily denies voters the right to vote is not terribly democratic.

On top of that, whether or not my vote counts depends on who else shows up. At the last caucus in my precinct, I am told that only three people showed up. That's automatic viability for each candidate who mananged to send a supporter, and in no way eliminates lower level candidates.

I'd add that I live in a terribly Republican area and that if such a system had been in place for the general election in 2000 it is quite plausible that no Democrat in my precinct would have been permitted to vote for Gore.

mencken wrote on January 3, 2008 2:44 PM:

this is the stupidest most archane process I can imagine. outside of sketch comedy, of course. or papal succession in the middle ages.

I'm eagerly anticipating the death knell of the "rural america is the only real america" agrarian myth.

this is why I live on a coast.

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grover_rover wrote on January 3, 2008 2:50 PM:

@heretic

I really don't understand how a Democrat could have so much contempt for Obama, aside from being racist of course. But then that person wouldn't make a very good Democrat now would they? The only other reason to hate Obama is if someone were to view him as insanely liberal and believed he was somehow going to ruin the country...which I can't imagine anyone this side of Rush or Hannity believing, and again, that person wouldn't be much of a Democrat.

I guess what I'm saying is, why do you hate Obama so much that you'd vote for a Republican? Obviously it isn't because you think he won't be liberal enough, or aggressive enough, or because you think he is a commie...so aside from racism or the fact that you are really a Republican, I don't understand what there is to hate so much about Barack Obama. What's to hate?

Big River Bandido wrote on January 3, 2008 2:51 PM:

Jeff — Democratic caucus attendees in IA are not "voters" in the traditional sense. This is not a straight-up, statewide, one-person-one-vote headcount like they have in the Republican caucuses. There are complex mathematical systems governing how delegates are apportioned and how each candidates' projected support at the next level of this multi-tiered process will pan out. But this is not an "election", neither tabulating nor predicting the results is in any way "scientific", nor is it truly "democratic", nor is it meant to be. This is a process designed by the Democratic Party of Iowa to allow rank-and-file input, but to allow it to be manipulated by well-connected and well-organized organizers in the state and local party. And in truth, the choices that come out of the Iowa caucuses have historically always managed to reflect the choices of the party leadership more than the grassroots.

Anonymous wrote on January 3, 2008 3:11 PM:

Message DE-Livered

Billary looks at 3 place as over 60% of Dems look for anyone else

Bill begs

Take my wife PLEASE!

Democrats say, "We gave at your office"

holden caulfield wrote on January 3, 2008 3:17 PM:

I have been around dem politics a long, long time and Ive never seen a campaign willing to lie as quickly and consistently as the Obama team. What a bunch of BS. I know for a fact that this is untrue as it applies to Biden, Ive spoken today to his sister Valerie who says this was totally untrue.

I am appalled at this kind or deceptive behavior from one of our "own".

"Hello Chicago" indeed!

Greg DeLassus wrote on January 3, 2008 3:22 PM:

I've never seen a campaign willing to lie as quickly and consistently as the Obama team.

Did you actually read the story? Bill Burton, of the Obama campaign, denies that any such negotiations were underway. In other words, neither campaign is making such a claim. How, then, do you read this as Obama's campaign "lying." They are both saying the same thing, so either they are both lying, or neither is lying. The idea that Obama's folks are uniquely guilty here, however, is totally unsupportable.

john mccutchen wrote on January 3, 2008 3:27 PM:

Holden didn't "catch" the actual facts...Caulfield's just warming up the whine for Billary's third place finish

Greg DeLassus wrote on January 3, 2008 3:41 PM:

Well, perhaps he can console himself with a few shots of rye whiskey.

roo_P wrote on January 3, 2008 3:51 PM:

DRinOH said:

This sort of antidemocratic brokering, while part-in-parcel with the Iowa caucus system, is obviously not the kind thing candidates would even tacitly acknowledge.

While I share your distaste for shady back-room-deals, I hardly think that is an appropriate characterisation.

Even if Biden (or Dodd, whoever) would ask his supporters to vote for Obama (or Clinton, whoever), they are under no obligation to do so. It will probably have some effect in the mode of "hey, my first choice thinks this person is the second-best, maybe he is onto something" but it is far from being a decision made by just the few powerful.

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KIE wrote on January 3, 2008 4:38 PM:

Sounds like Slippery Hill is up to more tricks!

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It's really silly that people keep insisting that Biden is just trying to get a spot in someone's cabinet. He is more qualified to be running than anyone else on either side. He has no desire to be anything but president at this point, and you would know that if you knew anything at all about the man.

Of course I am not saying that he wouldn't accept a position in someone else's cabinet, but that is surely not why he is running now. He wouldn't have to run for president in order to make him a good choice for Sec of State, Atty General, SCOTUS, etc.

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A payday loan (also called a paycheck advance or payday advance) is a small, short-term loan that is intended to cover a borrower's expenses until his or her next payday. Typical loans are between $100 and $500, on a two-week term and have interest rates in the range of 390 percent to 900 percent. The loans are also sometimes referred to as cash advances, though that term can also refer to cash provided against a prearranged line of credit such as a credit card.
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