In South Carolina, Pro-Confederate Flag Group Airs Ads Praising Huckabee's Flag Stance -- And Hitting McCain

Comments (66)

Angry Vet wrote on January 17, 2008 7:45 PM:

Racists for Huckabee! Maybe he'll siphon some support from Ron Paul.

ayup wrote on January 17, 2008 7:55 PM:

Dear God,
We have been humbled in surviving seven years of a Bush Administration. Please, please, let us run Obama against Huckabee in 2008?
Intelligently designed,
Voters

Tom Hemsley wrote on January 17, 2008 8:00 PM:

I really, really wish their name was Americans for the Preservation of American Culture of America. The AftPoACoA.

Cal Damage wrote on January 17, 2008 8:06 PM:

It's not about racism. It's about continuing to align an entire section of the UNITED States with the principle symbol of the largest attempt to overthrow the Consitution, especially by violent means, ever launched on our soil.
This is the flag of traitors and haters of America. It belongs with the swastika and the rising sun. And anyone who doesn't get that isn't paying attention.

Hilary wrote on January 17, 2008 8:09 PM:

This ad actually had to be paid for? The photoshopping looks like it was done by a child.

Lamb Cannon wrote on January 17, 2008 8:10 PM:

I am always confused by the fact that these would-be BillyBobs refer to the stars and bars as the emblem of their "heritage"

Why would these deplorable people brag about the fact that their ancestor were complete losers?

Drew wrote on January 17, 2008 8:11 PM:

I couldn't care less what flag people fly on their truck or homes. But I do believe the confederate flag shouldn't be flown on government buildings, for the same reason the Mexican flag isn't flown on them, it simply isn't the American flag.

BronxInTn wrote on January 17, 2008 8:16 PM:

Coincidentally a group of us here were talking about the Civil War history at lunch today, most of us having been born outside the South. One of us noted that some Southerners half-seriously refer to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression". And even more seriously, at least a generation ago, "War Between the States" was the much preferred label as opposed to "Civil War".

Dan wrote on January 17, 2008 8:21 PM:

The six polls from SC released today range from +10 McCain to a tie with Huckabee.

jeffgee wrote on January 17, 2008 8:29 PM:

Interesting that some Southerners call the Civil War the "war of Northern aggression" when they fired the first shots at Fort Sumter.
The Stars and Bars as we know it is the Confererate BATTLE flag, not some quaint artifact of history.

r€nato wrote on January 17, 2008 8:34 PM:

One of us noted that some Southerners half-seriously refer to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression".

My father was born in rural North Carolina and he quite seriously refers to it as that. I thought he was kidding too when he said that, but the look on his face screamed, "I ain't laughin', son".

Yes, he is a gigantic asshole, and a racist as well.

r€nato wrote on January 17, 2008 8:35 PM:

jesus I'm so tired of this 'states' rights' excuse. They only ever bring it up when they're defending slavery or their dumbass flag, which as Cal Damage rightly points out, is a symbol of slavery, genocide and treason.

alaskagrown wrote on January 17, 2008 8:43 PM:

hey, I have an idea for a bumper sticker that makes it clear that you're proud to be a southernor, here goes: "Proud To Be a Southernor."
wow, that was easy!

pseudonymous in nc wrote on January 17, 2008 8:46 PM:

"South Carolina: Giving North Carolina something to feel superior about since Reconstruction."

Nick wrote on January 17, 2008 8:55 PM:

I love this man! He could be our deliverance from Saint John the Good ... and if by some miracle he was their nominee, he'd struggle to 40 percent. Go Huck!

Anonymous wrote on January 17, 2008 8:59 PM:

deja vue all over again:

Manchurian Candidate Check!
Evangelist appeal Check!
Rebel Flag Check!

Anonymous wrote on January 17, 2008 9:05 PM:

"average guy with a flag on his pickup truck" = bubba

"full steam ahead" = swift boat

"Southerners value their heriatge" = you do not share our vakues

bubba is indignant ergo self impportant

It is a raise the esteem with a flag wrapping message, us versus them message, and very effective.

At least nobody discussed banning testicles hanging from bubba's truck, God forbid that.

Anonymous wrote on January 17, 2008 9:26 PM:

The Crescent on the SC flag means the state is Muslim, I don't see a cross on that flag.

NCSteve wrote on January 17, 2008 9:29 PM:

You know, North Carolinians are as obsessed with the Civil War (mostly called "the War," down here, thank you very much) as any other state in the South, but even they mostly think that South Carolina has been way over the top about this rebel flag thing for years.

But then, North Carolinians apparently thought South Carolinians were trouble-making pains in the asses back before the War too.

But, seriously, whenever Yankees express perplexity about how "obsessed" Southerners are with the War, I point out that the South lost one white man of of military age in five in that war. Historically, that leaves a mark that takes a long, long time to heal. It's the same reason Armistice Day taken a lot more seriously in Europe than it is in the U.S.

Lemmonmc wrote on January 17, 2008 9:53 PM:

As a Black man it never fails to amaze me the argument of state rights. In order for that argument to stand southerns have to assume their rights to own slaves comes before my ancestors rights to not be whipped, raped, castrated, children beaten etc. It's an argument that doesn't even begin to justify the horror these racist bastards put upon millions of Africa People. To say they are proud of their southern heritage directly reduces the nightmare of Black southern heritage. How did white southerns get to claim southern history as exclusively theirs? Don't Black Americans have a southern heritage too?

Nora wrote on January 17, 2008 9:57 PM:

This is what I've never understood. The whole conclusion of the Civil War was Lincoln saying the U.S. should never again be divided against itself. I don't understand why the Confederate Flag isn't framed as an unpatriotic symbol.

drubs wrote on January 17, 2008 9:57 PM:

Great point. Southern Heritage should also remember Jim Crow or as it should rightly be called 90 years of State Sanctioned Terror.

Dood wrote on January 17, 2008 10:11 PM:

"the average guy with a Confederate Flag on his pickup truck is saying is: He's proud to be a Southerner"

That is very true. That flag just means 'the South' to most people and nothing more. The far majority of Southerners don't really care either way about that flag.

I know that many of you want to believe that all people in the South are obsessed with the Civil War, that flag and are Hee Haw/KKK, and you're free to believe whatever.

You are not entitled to your own facts, though. This is exactly how Al Gore lost many votes in 2000. Better be careful with your rhetoric.

Jeff wrote on January 17, 2008 10:13 PM:

The Swastika's are banned in Germany.
the confederate flag should be banned in the U.S. it is a symbol of the days of slavery, white supremacy and hate.

aSadWhiteGuy wrote on January 17, 2008 10:33 PM:

I was going to try to make some poignant post about the Confederate flag - it's meaning both in the past as well as the present; the "implied symbolism"; etc. But, Lemmonmc made the point I was trying to think of far better than I ever could have... So: "I wish I'd said that"!

SocraticGadfly wrote on January 17, 2008 10:39 PM:

What? Why aren't they backing Ron Paul? He, even more than Huck, should be their real hero.

Anonymous wrote on January 17, 2008 10:46 PM:

"One of us noted that some Southerners half-seriously refer to the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression". And even more seriously, at least a generation ago, "War Between the States" was the much preferred label as opposed to "Civil War".:

BronxInTn, you're half right. They're not half-serious.

I grew up in the South - and everyone I knew called it the War of Northern Aggression (my grandparents, and almost everyone from Charleston) or the War Between the States, which seemed like the most liberal perspective at the time.

Since South Carolina seceded first, this was seen by everyone I knew as mostly a secession thing. At least, that's what anyone would tell you. The whole Civil War idea was summarily dismissed since, well, how can it be a civil war if South Carolina is no longer a part of the United States.

They're not half-serious. They're serious. Believe me, I'm related to them.

But the whole flag thing is another story altogether.

Most of those same relatives would never have dreamed of flying a Confederate flag. Never.

Because when you know just about everybody and everyone they're related to, you try not to offend people.

So it doesn't matter one hoot what the flag may represent to someone like my dear late grandmother.

It matters what it represents to her neighbors - both black or white. Most people in the South are always mindful of that impact and the need to respect it. It's just what good neighbors do.

So the folks who are supporting the flag flying on the state house are, trust me, the worst of the worst. They're loud and they're bullies. But they're not the majority.

In South Carolina, for someone to be willing to stand up and say they support that flag - knowing how it offends their neighbors...well, they're just not nice people, as my grandmother would have said.

Not nice people at all.

And that's who the Huckster is reaching out to.

The worst of the worst. The squirrelly ones.

American Veteran wrote on January 17, 2008 11:10 PM:

Quote by James Webb when former U.S. Navy Secretary:

"To tar the sacrifices of the Confederate soldier as simple acts of racism, and reduce the battle flag under which he fought to nothing more than the symbol of a racist heritage, is one of the great blasphemies of the modern age." -- James Webb

This year (2007), James Webb began serving his first term as a United States Senator (D) from Virginia

American Veteran wrote on January 17, 2008 11:12 PM:

Quote by James Webb when former U.S. Navy Secretary:

"To tar the sacrifices of the Confederate soldier as simple acts of racism, and reduce the battle flag under which he fought to nothing more than the symbol of a racist heritage, is one of the great blasphemies of the modern age." -- James Webb

This year (2007), James Webb began serving his first term as a United States Senator (D) from Virginia

Anonymous wrote on January 17, 2008 11:20 PM:

Quote by James Webb when former U.S. Navy Secretary:

"To tar the sacrifices of the Confederate soldier as simple acts of racism, and reduce the battle flag under which he fought to nothing more than the symbol of a racist heritage, is one of the great blasphemies of the modern age." -- James Webb

You know, American Veteran, I think most people in the South - at least most white people in the South - would agree with Webb. They are not being untruthful in any sense. They really do not see the War as having been about slavery. Really.

Whether that's a justification for the sins of their ancestors - or an educated interpretation of their side of the story, well, that's another thing.

But Webb is speaking for many in the South who are truly saddened to see themselves painted as racists when they just don't see themselves that way.

And, since they don't see themselves that way, it's hard to think of their ancestors that way.

But still, I firmly believe that the vast majority of South Carolinians do not want to see that flag on their statehouse. It's just a matter of manners.

Dan Campbell wrote on January 17, 2008 11:29 PM:

Listen to some of you! Some of you are being down right silly. The Civil war was more than just a slavery issue. Those who died on both sides of the fence were Americans. This is not a symbol of racism, unless you make it that way. Slaves existed under the tradition American flag we fly today, but that doesn't mean we are all racists. Times have changed and now we have all learned to love each other.

Mike is not saying he supports or does not support the flag, he is just saying it is to be decided at the State level.

We are voting for Mike Huckabee!

Anonymous wrote on January 17, 2008 11:32 PM:

I rest my case.

drubs wrote on January 17, 2008 11:39 PM:

Anonymous said-"But still, I firmly believe that the vast majority of South Carolinians do not want to see that flag on their statehouse. It's just a matter of manners."

I will take you at your word, but I think we all need to understand what Lemmonmc is saying. One may not think it is a big deal, but it is to a lot of folks and for very good and serious reasons.

Steve wrote on January 17, 2008 11:40 PM:

Personally, I don't think this is going to help Mike Huckabee much down in South Carolina. But time will tell!

phil james wrote on January 17, 2008 11:48 PM:

I just lost most of my respect for Senator Webb. Thousands butchered in the name of Southern pride and privilege all borne on the backs of tortured black men, women and children. Because Southerners cannot fathom the obscenity of this fact...this hard and true fact...they seek every refuge to make it somehow not so. It must not be true they say. We have a proud heritage they say. We have a flag and were proud and steadfast in battle. We had brave generals. We had families and friends waiting at home. We died bravely as well. But in the end...all of it...all of it...to perpetuate the domination and murder of one race for the sake of another.

mike2 wrote on January 17, 2008 11:52 PM:

Folks who don't see their own racism, or the racism in flying and supporting that battle flag, are a curious bunch.

Someone makes the point that the stars and stripes were also a flag of slavery, not to mention genocide. True enough, and I personally despise all flag waving. But progressives and opponents of slavery and genocide now claim the stars and stripes American flag as their own.

In contrast, do the yahoos who claim the confederate battle flag claim it as a symbol of the new progressive South of civil rights and liberty? Do they claim a multiracial coalition of Confederate Flag wavers? I didn't think so.

The Civil War was about many things, but more than anything else it was about slavery. The confederate flag is the flag of those who fought for the states who differed with the U.S. government about SLAVERY and institutionalized racism and genocide against Blacks. There is no hiding that. There is no uglier symbol in this country than that flag, and there are no uglier people than those who wave it and defend it.

C Smith wrote on January 18, 2008 1:16 AM:

Roots of Romney’s “lazy boy” Religion:

MORMONS: [The Encyclopedia Britannica, Thirteenth Edition, London, vol. 18, pp. 842-843, 1926]… a religious sect founded by Joseph Smith… born… December 1805 at Sharon… Vermont, from which place… his parents, who like his grandparents were superstitious, neurotic, seers of visions, and believers in miraculous cures and in heavenly voices and direct revelation, removed to New York, where they settled on a small farm… Joseph, a good natured, lazy boy, suffering from a bad heredity physically and psychically, began to have visions which seem to have accompanied epileptoid seizures… from which he recovered apparently before he became of age. The boy’s father was a digger for hidden treasure… the son became a crystal gazer and by the use of a “peep-stone” discovered the whereabouts of pretended hidden treasure…. It was not until the 22nd of September of 1827 that (as he said) he dug up, on the hill near Manchester, a stone box, in which was a volume… made of thin gold plates… and fastened together by three gold rings. The plates were covered with small writing [supposedly of the reformed Egyptian tongue]… with the golden book Smith claimed that he found a breastplate of gold and a pair of supernatural spectacles, consisting of two crystals set in a silver bow, and called “Urim and Thummin”; by aid of these the mystic characters could be read.

QuoVadisAnima wrote on January 18, 2008 1:23 AM:

Wow, what a lot of angst over not much!
I read the news report on this & Huckabee simply said that it is SC's flag so SC should deal with it.

Now the same people who accuse Huckabee of wanting to micromanage the lives of all Americans to conform to his personal beliefs (despite all evidence to the contrary) are raging because he is continuing to practice the subsidiarity that he has always believed in.

This is common sense: SC needs to deal with this themselves. If it is imposed on them, they will not work their way thru it - they will resent being told what to think, believe & do and will rebel against it. (whoa, deja vu...)

Deseretian wrote on January 18, 2008 1:26 AM:

I love the "Confederate Flag", really. I had one in my room as a teenager, though I grew up in California. No one bought it for me. My Southern Father never really talked a whole lot about the War of Northern Aggression. I just felt a connection to all those Southerners who fought for THEIR freedom. I'm not saying that the South was right in everything. Were I black, I'd be against it, too. However, the boys in Gray fought for states' rights. Don't believe otherwise. Each state should have been allowed to choose its own course. I support Romney and I'm sad he couldn't have found a more diplomatic way to broach the pain that every true Southerner feels when he thinks about how hard his ancestors fought (9 to 1 odds against them), how they killed 2 Yankee soldiers for every one of their own; how the Yankees burned the homes, farms, libraries, and schools of so many innocent civilians, etc. Anyway, the South formed a democratic government and fought harder than anyone before or since (except the Boers). That flag was bought with blood. If folks want to fly it, let them. If other folks want to hate it, let them. Don't simplify or vilify the multiple meanings behind that flag.

outrageoftheday wrote on January 18, 2008 1:55 AM:

Well, I think that, by all means Huckabee should have the Confederate Flag behind him whenever he campaigns and the Democrats would be foolish to stop him from doing so. I'd encourage it actually, if I were running for the Democratic nomination.

After all, in a 'time of war' it does show the rest of the world how we no longer have the 'tribal' or territorial divisions that so divide backward nations to which we are trying to bring democracy..say, like Iraq.

Perfect.

nogo war wrote on January 18, 2008 2:18 AM:

The confederacy declared themselves a separate nation. They had a separate government. Here is their constitution.
http://www.law.ou.edu/ushistory/csaconstitution/preamble.shtml

They were traitors who received greater amnesty than they wish to give undocumented immigrants.

QuoVadisAnima wrote on January 18, 2008 2:19 AM:

Wow, what a lot of angst over not much!
I read the news report on this & Huckabee simply said that it is SC's flag so SC should deal with it.

Now the same people who accuse Huckabee of wanting to micromanage the lives of all Americans to conform to his personal beliefs (despite all evidence to the contrary) are raging because he is continuing to practice the subsidiarity that he has always believed in.

This is common sense: SC needs to deal with this themselves. If it is imposed on them, they will not work their way thru it - they will resent being told what to think, believe & do and will rebel against it. (whoa, deja vu...)

nogo war wrote on January 18, 2008 2:22 AM:

From Article IV of the CSA Constitution.

Section II

1. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

Lisa wrote on January 18, 2008 3:07 AM:

States Rights Issue...Federal Goverment should not interfere...the federal Gov interferes in too many thinks. Huck is right on this one.

estamm wrote on January 18, 2008 7:41 AM:

Two things:
1) When the KKK and their ilk display a flag at their meetings or in marches, it ain't the American Flag. It is the Confederate flag. During the Civil War, the Confederate flag was a rallying point for the soldiers. Today, it is a rallying point for bigots. In the 1880's, a Civil War vet could look at that flag with pride. Today, there are no Civil War vets (of course), and the experience most people (especially African Americans) have of the flag involves hatred and bigotry. State government buildings have no right not fly it anymore.

2) The Civil War was started over slavery. Anyone who says it was fought over 'states rights' is also correct... since the 'states rights' that the southern states were fighting for was a right to keep their slaves. If slavery had ended with the drafting of the constitution, there would never have been a Civil War. I often hear that 'the average Confederate soldier never owned a slave'. Very true. Only the rich owned slaves. Now, think about the current Republican mantra of the need to repeal the estate tax (aka, the 'death tax'), which only affects multi-millionaires. Then, think about how the right-wing has gotten the average Joe to *AGREE* that the estate tax needs to be repealed... getting them to think that some day, *THEY* might need that tax repealed. Same thing... the elite uses propaganda to get the shmoes to do what they want, and to fight their battles for them. Some people just never learn.

Trapper wrote on January 18, 2008 8:13 AM:

There were many brave soldiers who fought bravely and died on the losing side of many a war. That doesn't justify the flying of a treasonous symbol over a government building in my eyes.

However, since some right wingers are trumpeting "states rights" and "letting South Carolina decide," I say let them. And if the state of South Carolina chooses to fly the traitorous symbol of their ancestors over their government buildings, then let them do it without any federal funds. They want to secede again in their hearts. Let them do it with their wallets as well.

kenoshaMarge wrote on January 18, 2008 8:38 AM:

Confederate Flag a symbol or treason. Should not be flown anywhere in the United States outside a museum as a symbol of treason.

RandyMacon wrote on January 18, 2008 8:56 AM:

Let the South secede. Give the Confederate States back to a new country. Give them Huckabee, Thompson, Lindsay Graham, George Allen, Jeff Sessions, Haley Barbour and all the other yahoos and make them survive without injections of cash from the government in Washington. I've had it up to here with racism, the belief that violence is the best solution to any problem and unbridled fundamentalist religiosity. They can fly any damn flag they want.

loki wrote on January 18, 2008 8:59 AM:

I think Lincoln should've let the South go!

Geoff wrote on January 18, 2008 9:21 AM:

"Let the South secede. Give the Confederate States back to a new country. Give them Huckabee, Thompson, Lindsay Graham, George Allen, Jeff Sessions, Haley Barbour and all the other yahoos and make them survive without injections of cash from the government in Washington. I've had it up to here with racism, the belief that violence is the best solution to any problem and unbridled fundamentalist religiosity. They can fly any damn flag they want."

---

Agreed--for all of their complaining about taxes, the former states of the Confederacy are among the greatest beneficiaries of federal spending. MS gets $2.02 back for every $1 they put into Federal coffers, LA gets $1.75, AL gets $1.66, etc. Out of all of the former Confederate states, only FL and TX pay in more than they get back, and even those are close to break-even.

How strange is it to see that the redistribution of wealth in this nation is now from wealthy BLUE states to poor RED ones...

Martin wrote on January 18, 2008 9:26 AM:

Well, upon visiting Savannah, GA a few years back I was told by two elderly Southern men to get back North, back above the Mason Dixon Line, Yankee. I'm from PA and in all my life never once heard anyone refer to the Mason Dixon Line except probably when we were studying the Civil War in history class in 8th grade. It made me realize that the Civil War isn't that far removed from the South and that the Confederate flag, which, incidentally, hung on nearly every household we came across in Southern Georgia, doesn't simply mean "Proud to be a Southerner," it means much more than that. Especially when driving through the small roads of Southern GA and coming across a white town (Confederate flags waiving), a black town (no Confederate flags), a white town (Confederate flags waiving), a black town...you get the picture. And this was in the late 1990s. Just an observation.

An Outhouse wrote on January 18, 2008 9:29 AM:

"This is not a symbol of racism, unless you make it that way."

Its a symbol of treason and cowardice. Certain people could not tolerate a democratic system and its outcome so they decided to take their ball and go home. The problem was, it wasn't their ball.

me wrote on January 18, 2008 10:11 AM:

Huckabee had a chance to take a principled stand of leadership....and deferred.

It might be enough to win him SC and GA and a few other southern states.

I'm from Atlanta, and there is no doubt, as anonymous says above, that those who fly the stars and bars are proudly displaying their racism. They know full well that it is a hurtful act of defiance. That is the whole point.

nitpicker wrote on January 18, 2008 10:18 AM:

Never forget this:

"The prevailing ideas entertained by (Thomas Jefferson) and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the 'storm came and the wind blew.' Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition." - Alexander Stephens, Vice President of the Confederate States of America, March 21, 1861

tritonesub wrote on January 18, 2008 10:32 AM:

You would think the "Cornerstone" speech of Stephens would stop the yammering of people saying that the war wasn't about slavery. Sadly, No. There's a really short book about the secessionist delegates and their writing and speeches called "The Apostles of Disunion" that establishes clearly that the powers that prosecuted the war and the secession were clearly motivated by greed and racism.

oltex wrote on January 18, 2008 11:01 AM:

Followed that APAC link - thanks and Yahoo! Southern Men will rise again! Dis better'n those dern pills. I can haz slaves?!

Matthew wrote on January 18, 2008 12:19 PM:

drubs,

You are right, the Confederate flag is unpatriotic. It represents historic killing of loyal Americans by those attempting to destroy the country and represents then and more recently the racism expoused by people opposed to American values. It has no more a place in current discourse than does the Nazi flag. They are both flags of defeated and discredited values. They both belong in a museum. Anyone flying them or saying they support flying them has absolutely no place in any leadership role, especially as our nation's president.

Brianm0122 wrote on January 18, 2008 12:34 PM:

Jeff wrote on January 17, 2008 10:13 PM:

"The Swastika's are banned in Germany.
the confederate flag should be banned in the U.S. it is a symbol of the days of slavery, white supremacy and hate."

The confederate flag should be banned because it supports the violent overthrow of the Constitution of the United States , and anyone who waves it should be arrested for treason.

I don't understand why this is tolerated.

phil james wrote on January 18, 2008 1:16 PM:

Deseretian posts this: Were I black, I'd be against it, too. However, the boys in Gray fought for states' rights. Don't believe otherwise. Each state should have been allowed to choose its own course.

Oh? Really? I would suggest its fair to say that the course each state should have been allowed to take was whether or not to keep intact the institution of slavery. Was it not? Isn't that the right that the southern states were contesting? Not the right to hold NASCAR events or carry shotguns in the rear windows of their pick-up trucks or to raise some curious bastardized version of the American flag over their capital buildings, but the right to own, trade- in, market, transport, punish, torture, butcher, and in all other ways hold dominion over other human beings who happen to be black. Spew your pretty States rights talk...you can't perfume the stench of what the South was all about.

pseudonymous in nc wrote on January 18, 2008 2:21 PM:

"Anyway, the South formed a democratic government and fought harder than anyone before or since (except the Boers)."

Well, *that* is an interesting comparison.

As for Webb, I think it deserves more charitable parsing. The footsoldiers of the Confederate armies were didn't fight so that a dumbass frat boy in South Carolina could stick a battle-flag decal on his pickup next to 'pissing Calvin'.

thac0 wrote on January 18, 2008 3:16 PM:

The CSA shared a striking number of goals with Osama bin Laden: among them the destruction of our great nation. But, go ahead, fly that flag, Confederists.

kilkee wrote on January 18, 2008 5:08 PM:

"States' rights": I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what rights were at stake beyond the RIGHT to enslave people. Really, was there some issue about selling ice cream on Sundays or something that I missed? Can you read the "Cornerstone" speech above and say that the defense and expansion of slavery was not THE critical 'right' being defended by the confederacy?

Fortunately (or not) for some in the South, after getting their asses kicked the North decided to let them keep their first Amendment rights so that they could continue to make idiots of themselves waving the flag of "Sates' rights."

Don wrote on January 19, 2008 11:05 AM:

I really believe the individual states should be responsible in deciding what STATE flag flies over their STATE government buildings. It is not the FEDERAL government's place to dictate such decisions, unless you're a believer in a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT.

DB wrote on January 20, 2008 2:30 AM:

For everyone who talks about the Confederate flag representing slavery and being a symbol of treason and a symbol to overthrow the United States should care to listen to what the President of the United States said at the time:

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

President-elect Abraham Lincoln

March 4, 1861

Therefore, you would be accusing the President of the United States, during the time of the Civil War, as being guilty of treason and willing to overthrow the United States of America. You would also say the same of practically EVERY President of the United States from George Washington to Abraham Lincoln.

Apparently, the same President who issued the Emancipation Proclamation in an effort to weaken the Confederate's resource base saw no problem with slavery in the states where it existed. I'm not saying that slavery was right, but I also don't think half of you know what you are talking about and what the elected officials of the United States thought about slavery at the time, and they did not argue against it.

Ken wrote on January 20, 2008 11:34 AM:

DB makes a point but misses the ball. Lincoln ddnt want to free any slaves his only concern was to save the Union. Many of the founding fathers practiced slavery and the raping of innocent young black girls. They usually started sleeping with girls from the age of 12 or 13. Thats one of the reasons why they called it a perculiar institution. The war was fought over slavery because of the economic impact it had on the economy and because of the human suffering it caused on the souls of all americans of that time black and white. It is nothing new that people don't understand what the big issue is about the symbolism of that flag. Most people dont read history and wont. There are racists in our government now with power and position manipulating the masses over issues that keep us divided. It is the american way....its what this country was founded on. It is up to the people with insight and the will to keep justice and hope alive Lets fight to keep the conscious of human spirit alive in this country. Now that is real....

Jean Camp wrote on January 22, 2008 4:05 PM:

"It's not about racism."

Well, going back to the 20th century, that flag was adopted in 1962. Obviously immediately after losing a conflict the losing side is not going to be allowed to keep using its battle regalia and symbols. So this particular flag was very much about supporting segregation and "state's rights". This is NOT a nineteenth century flag. This IS a 20th century pro-segregation flag.

If there were solid educational history with honest treatment about shameful, possibly or obviously avoidable wars, not only the South but the entire nation could be less war happy. It is true that the education systems in the South tend to weaker. Not only better education about how shameful was the support of slavery, but the critical role of the US in creating an unfair peace in WWI, and the bullying that was the Mexican-American War, and the lies that started the Spanish-American War .....

The entire country is too pro-war because the entire country has an educational system that refuses to acknowledge past national or regional mistakes.

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