Vicious South Carolina Flyer Attacks McCain's Vietnam Service

Comments (52)

Bob Questioner wrote on January 16, 2008 10:37 AM:

Are we certain McCain didn't do the flyer himself as a sympathy move? If we are certain, why? He's a Republican. They do this shit.

Michael A wrote on January 16, 2008 10:37 AM:

DISGUSTING. What is with south carolina and negative advertising? I don't know what else to say, but DISGUSTING.

Mike wrote on January 16, 2008 10:39 AM:

Actually, these guys are pretty well known. They're some right-wing wackos who have been harrassing McCain for a while. It'll be interesting to see if the Republicans who cheered on the Swift Boaters offer McCain any sympathy.

linda wrote on January 16, 2008 10:39 AM:

jeez, you'd think at some point the good citizens of south carolina would have had their fill of this crap.

Not surprized wrote on January 16, 2008 10:43 AM:

Kind of reminds me a bit of the negative push polls, and other dirty antics that are in this election. What goes around....

Looks like Huckabee needs to be targeted too for his anti-Mormon crap.

KingDave wrote on January 16, 2008 10:46 AM:

The return address on that seems to say "Swift Boat Vets for Truth, PO Box 246, Kinston(?) NC 28542(?)". You can read it a little better on the VVAJM website. 28542 is the postal code for Camp Lejeune, the US Marine training camp. Of course, anybody can print anything for a return address, falsifying one is trivial.

Anonymous wrote on January 16, 2008 10:49 AM:

Hey Greg,

Check the Whois registry for Vietnam Veterans Against McCain. Someone by the name of Cindy Brochure out of Kinston, North Carolina acquired the domain in 2005. The registry lists her contact information. It would be interesting to have a chat with her.

Michael wrote on January 16, 2008 10:53 AM:

"Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain is organized and managed by Gerard 'Jerry' W. Kiley."

Same person:

Gerard Kiley has more than 20 years experience in the Information Technology industry. He has significant experience in building System/Network Integration and consulting organizations, developing marketing programs, and solution sales.

Most recently Mr. Kiley served ten years at Siemens, where as Director of Business Development he ran the Network Integration Services Group. He has substantial experience building and running business development teams, and he has repeatedly grown annual revenues in his groups from start-up figures to more than $10 million. Mr. Kiley has significant experience in fostering start-ups, and in making them thrive. In 1984 he co-founded Language Technology, Inc. and successfully raised venture financing from Citicorp. He was also part of the founding team of Security Dynamics (now RSA Security), where he developed and implemented dynamic marketing and a direct sales plan.

Mr. Kiley received both a B.A. and a M.S. degree from Boston College.(From the TruExchange's management team profile page.

Garrigus Carraig wrote on January 16, 2008 10:54 AM:

How come now that we would welcome South Carolina's secession with flowers, candy, and a pony, they won't leave?

This is a bit reminiscent of the Chambliss/Cleland race in Georgia a few years back.

fjcasper wrote on January 16, 2008 10:54 AM:

Conservative politics eats its own, the logic of swiftboating.

playing to win wrote on January 16, 2008 10:55 AM:

I wouldn't be surprised if this came via the Romney campaign (Barbara Comstock et al). They have a bit of a bounce from yesterday and McCain is currently the most nationally viable Republican candidate. If they can bury him in the next round of primaries, he is out and they only have to deal with Huckabee. Obviously, whoever did this knew that it would get national play, despite being released by surrogates in SC.

Brianm0122 wrote on January 16, 2008 10:56 AM:

I read somewhere that SC had the highest percentage of retired military residents among all the states.

I'm not sure that this kind of thing hurts McCain

discodave wrote on January 16, 2008 10:57 AM:

i wonder who the Wily brothers are backing this year????????????????

Long Memory wrote on January 16, 2008 10:57 AM:

I didn't think it was possible for Georgia to look good after what the GOP there did to Max Cleland. But this is darn close. It's a shame because I'd like to visit South Carolina. (I wouldn't visit Georgia even if it was just to urinate on the side of the road.)

You know, there's something down and dirty about this country and its continued treatment of the Vietnam veteran. It's one of those things Americans won't acknowledge, along the lines of the genocide against Native Americans, and the systemic discrimination against any kind of minority, be it religious or ethnic.

It's troubling, and I say that as a Vietnam era veteran. (I never served in country.)

bob wrote on January 16, 2008 11:01 AM:

This same guy, based in upstate NY state, was part of the Swift Boat Vets against John Kerry. Shocking.

http://polhudson.lohudblogs.com/2008/01/15/rockland-based-anti-mccain-effort-draws-fire/

Liam wrote on January 16, 2008 11:02 AM:

McCain got slimed by the Bush crowd in 2000, and after all that, John McCain climbed in Bush's lap and licked his face, so I am sure he will play fetch for the new master that just rubbed his face in it again.

McCain has chosen to be a loyal lapdog to those who yank his leash. Do you think that is the hallmark of a strong leader!

TheraP wrote on January 16, 2008 11:07 AM:

I repudiate anything that smears a person's service to the country, in whatever form. Unless they've disobeyed the law in doing so. (bush, for example, who did not complete his service)

It is a shameful thing that our country is stooping to such base lies and smear tactics. It demeans the process, the voters, and the country.

Imagine what we look like to the world at large. We detain and torture people without any recourse to legal counsel or a trial. We sell worthless bonds all over the world. We try to commandeer the world's resources for our selfish use. We allow our military to harry and threaten others. A president like bush makes us reviled and mocked the world over.

We need renewal as a nation and this is just one aspect of the muck we're in.

Let us rise above such gutter tactics in every aspect of our lives. I am disheartened by so much mud slinging and dishonesty.

BJL wrote on January 16, 2008 11:09 AM:

I'm thinking it is Ted Lane Sampley. He's based out of Kinston. He hates McCain about as much as he hated Kerry. Looks like he's backing Hunter too. So the question is, who is Hunter doing this for. Here's Sampley's website.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/

It doesn't look like he likes Obama either by the looks of the Photoshopped picture on his site. And the hand cream he is selling certainly indicates he doesn't like people of the Muslim faith.

JohnG wrote on January 16, 2008 11:21 AM:

John McCain could have walked out of his North Vietnamese prison at any time by just asking to be released (his father was commander of the Pacific Fleet). He refused to leave until every prisoner captured earlier left first.

So, I would hope that every American, not just those who served in the military, would find the rat who wrote this and tell him where to go!

Eric wrote on January 16, 2008 11:23 AM:

If McCain were a Democrat, the major newspapers would write "he said, she said" stories, giving this brochure equal weight with McCain's account of events. Don't hold your breath for that to happen here.

Gus wrote on January 16, 2008 11:29 AM:

Jeez, note that boat in the lower left which appears to be the silhouette of a Swift boat. Not that they're building on an established pattern or anything...

NCSteve wrote on January 16, 2008 11:33 AM:

Max Cleland is from Georgia, not South Carolina.

drubs wrote on January 16, 2008 11:51 AM:

South Carolina still flies the Confederate Flag; 'nuff Said.

Th wrote on January 16, 2008 11:54 AM:

I can't imagine it is anyone other than Ted Sampley. He hates McCain and Kerry for exposing him at the Senate POW/MIA hearings as someone exploiting the families of the missing. In 2000, Kerry came to McCain's defense and McCain did not return the favor in 2004.

ArkPanda wrote on January 16, 2008 11:55 AM:

One day a scorpion approached a frog along a river bank.
The scorpion asked, "Frog, please give me a ride across this wide river."
The frog responded, "I would be a fool to do that. You will sting and paralyze me."
Said the scorpion, "Ridiculous! If I stung you then we would both drown."
Trusting the scorpion's logic the frog agreed and allowed the scorpion onto his back as he swam out into the river.
In the middle of the river the scorpion stung the frog.
As the frog convulsed from the scorpion sting and began to slip beneath the waters he looked back at the scorpion and said, "Why? Why?"
The scorpion answered, "Because I am a scorpion, and it is my nature."

Anonymous wrote on January 16, 2008 11:59 AM:

It almost makes me want to vote for McCain just to spite the SOB's.

This is sick.

And typical republican BS.

OxyCon wrote on January 16, 2008 11:59 AM:

Here is what McCain said about John Kerry while Kerry was being Swiftboated"

McCain said Kerry may have opened himself to criticism by focusing on Vietnam. In his own primary campaign in 2000, McCain said, he didn't have to because everyone knew he'd been there. For Kerry, "it's clearly a tactical or strategic move" to shield him against "charges of being too liberal and soft on defense."

McCain has not only been focusing on his Vietnam service, he's been showcasing it

That Karma sure is a youknowhat.

Th wrote on January 16, 2008 12:03 PM:

Cindy Brochure, huh? Maybe "send-a-brochure" or inCENDIary brochure.

Bob wrote on January 16, 2008 12:03 PM:

I am no fan of John McCain's politics, and I don't think of him as a straight shooter. I do, however, admire his courage in Vietnam, and I am repelled by the disgraceful conduct attributed to the Bushies in 2000 in South Carolina. I also have not seen the inside of this mailer. But the outside just does not seem outrageous to me. McCain is pictured healthy, old and in a suit, and is belittled for running on his status as a former POW. He is not shown as a young man being brutalized. The cartoon takes aim at him for purportedly running on his status as a POW, and that point of view strikes me as being well within the bounds of reasonable political discourse.If this is all McCain has to face this time around, he is in far better shape than in 2000, and in better shape than Kerry was in 2004.

Bob wrote on January 16, 2008 12:07 PM:

Oops - my mistake re the depiction of McCain "in a suit" - I see on second look it was a POW uniform. But I don't think that changes my position on the cartoon.

WillyK wrote on January 16, 2008 12:16 PM:

I did the same registry search and used some other databases I have access to. Cindy Brochure is a real person in Kinston, NC. She is on its Chamber of Commerce and a registered Democrat?! To be fair, though, she may be the registrant for the site's ISP, Rustikat.net, which is based in Kinston and have nothing to do with the swiftboaters.

Jim wrote on January 16, 2008 12:21 PM:

I should be outraged, OUTRAGED that this has happened. How DARE those cowardly bastards do this? But, you know, when the Swift Boaters attacked John Kerry, Senator Straight Talk's response was to say, 'well, yeah, it's over the top. But Kerry really brought it on himself by playing up his military record so much.' OK, so I guess I'll set my outrage aside...

E. F. Mawson wrote on January 16, 2008 12:30 PM:

Texan Bob Perry, one of the chief movers and shakers behind the "swiftboating" of John Kerry, has been on Romney's team since early 2007, 'nuff said.

Richard Leary wrote on January 16, 2008 12:32 PM:

There's a big difference between physical courage and moral courage. McCain exhibited the former as a POW, but since becoming a politician had exhibited little of the latter. This has been obvious since 2000, when his only response to the Bushies' smearing his wife and kid was to make a meek objection to the shrub during a debate. If he had instead stood outside the shrub's HQ with horsewhip in hand, or called out the shrub when face to face with him, he would have shown that he was still the man who chose to stay with his fellow POWs rather than -- as the shrub had -- take advantage of his being the son of a powerful man. And I believe that thus defending his family's honor would have stood him well in South Carolina, where in an earlier century far less insulting remarks would have resulted in a duel.

kingbeat3 wrote on January 16, 2008 12:33 PM:

The originator of the "flier" is not a South Carolina native but one Jerry Kiley, who according to his website "grew up in the Bronx and attended Catholic High School in Harlem."

Pale Rider wrote on January 16, 2008 12:39 PM:

Here's what I found out about Kiley--he's given money to Joe Lieberman in the past:

Results: 1 records found in 0.1094 seconds.

Total for this search: $1,000
Search Criteria:
Donor name: Kiley, g
Cycle(s) selected: 2006, 2004

Start another search

Contributor
Occupation
Date
Amount
Recipient

KILEY, GERARD
STAMFORD,CT 06901
THE ALLIANCE GROUP/R.E.
10/28/2006
$1,000
Lieberman, Joe
-----------------------

If they turn out to be the same guy, why would a past Lieberman donor be behind an anti-McCain group?

What the hell???

Big M wrote on January 16, 2008 12:42 PM:

Let's be honest here, can we? McCain was a war criminal. He was bombing people that he'd never even seen in his life, and that had never done a god-damned thing to either him or to this country.

What is this fucking mental disease that makes Americans think that bombing the shit out of people that have never done anything to you, or that you have never seen, makes you a hero? What would you call somebody that flew a bomber over from some other country and started picking off people in Chicago or L.A.? You know what you'd call them, and when Americans are the chicken-shit murderers dropping the bombs from 30,000 feet up, it's no different -- at least not to a person with any brains, self-respect, or moral integrity.

It's too bad that they didn't finish his ass off when they had him in the Hanoi Hilton, but I guess they figured they could get more out of him alive than dead, since his father was an Admiral.

The military in this country is nothing more than mob muscle for transnational corporations, bankers and oil companies. It has nothing to do with defending this country, either. Its purpose is to subvert foreign governments, steal their resources, and turn their people into wage slaves while ravaging their environments, so that the people running the show can maximize their profits. And I defy any of McCain's pathetic defenders to provide documented proof that even one of the almost countless invasions this country's military has visited on people around the world had a happy monkey fuck to do with defending this country, the Constitution, or its' citizens phony "freedoms."

If you think that the actual purpose of the U.S. military is to protect you, your freedoms, and this country, then answer these questions:

1) Whose freedoms was the military protecting when it gassed, bulldozed, shot and burned the Branch Davidians at Waco?

2) Whose freedoms were being protected when the residents of New Orleans were forcibly removed from their homes at gunpoint after Katrina, and had their guns confiscated?

3) Why is half the U.S. military either sitting by the tens of thousands in places where we aren't engaged in any fighting, like Italy, Germany, and South Korea, for example, or killing people by the tens of thousands on the other side of the globe, while a million Mexicans and assorted other illegals, including potential “terrorists,” pour across this country's borders EVERY YEAR? The Constitution makes no distinction between military invasions or pedestrian invasions.

4) Where was your sainted military, specifically the Air Force/NORAD, on 9/11?

5) How many of the following countries, that were either invaded and/or bombed and/or had economic sanctions imposed against them and/or their governments completely subverted by the United States in the last half-century, had done anything to merit it, other than refuse to do what Rome-on-the-Potomac demanded, or to nationalize their own country's assets for the betterment of their own people, and boot out the American corporations? Let's start with Bosnia, Haiti, Panama, Somalia, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Guatemala, Chile, and Vietnam. I'm sure that you can come up with others on your own.

Pale Rider wrote on January 16, 2008 12:43 PM:

More...trying to correlate if they're the same person:

1. www.electapres.com
www.electapres.com/MT/mt-archi - [Cached]
Published on: 3/16/2007 Last Visited: 3/18/2007

Jerry Kiley filed papers last week to establish the nonpartisan group Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain. "When people truly get to know him, there's no possibility they'll consider him for president of the United States," says Kiley, who served in the Army and completed the Internal Revenue Service paperwork to establish the "527" group. 2. www.agonist.org
www.agonist.org/candy/20060410 - [Cached]
Published on: 2/2/2007 Last Visited: 3/29/2007

Jerry Kiley filed papers last week to establish the nonpartisan group Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain. "When people truly get to know him, there's no possibility they'll consider him for president of the United States," says Kiley, who served in the Army and completed the Internal Revenue Service paperwork to establish the "527" group.

RAW STORY spoke last week with Kiley, as well as Ted Sampley, a North Carolina-based publisher who has been harshly criticizing McCain for more than 10 years. 3. Jerry Kiley, Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry
www.vietnamveteransagainstjohn - [Cached]
Published on: 11/16/2007 Last Visited: 11/16/2007

Jerry Kiley
...
Kiley is proud of his fourteen months' service in a U.S. Army communications center in support of combat troops in Vietnam. Nearly thirty years after the end of the war he continues support of those who came home from an unpopular war to an unappreciative nation, as well those who were left behind.

For three years Kiley was Communications Director for the National Vietnam Veterans Coalition and later served as vice-chair of the organization for an additional three years. He also served in board positions for "The Last Firebase", "Veterans of the Vietnam War" and "Homecoming II Project", each dedicated to obtaining freedom for U.S. prisoners of war who remained in captivity in Southeast Asia after the end of the war.

Kiley learned his take-no-prisoners style and his tenacity while growing up in the Bronx and attending Catholic high school in Harlem. He received national attention when he confronted a college basketball player on court by holding an American Flag in front of her after her refusal to face the Flag during the playing of the National Anthem.

He currently holds a management position with thirty-seven years' service for a multi-billion dollar New York company, in which capacity he served a term as president of a Northeastern Industry professional association.

Kiley has been married for thirty-three years, and is the father of two children.

Jerry Kiley Garnerville, NY 10923 (845) 947-3058 gwkiley@hotmail.com

paDem wrote on January 16, 2008 12:47 PM:

I'm afraid this isn't new: South Carolina has been kinda hard on Republicans before, actually.

Pale Rider wrote on January 16, 2008 12:51 PM:

Here's a link to Kiley's work against John Kerry:

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.org/

Note that two of his co-conspirators on this site are Ted Sampley and Mike Benge--

HERE's a fascinating article, written by Ted Sampley in 1992 about McCain:
http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm
John McCain: The Manchurian Candidate

By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
December 1992 Issue

Those following the proceedings during the past year of the Senate Select Committee on POW and MIA Affairs have been mystified by the rabid actions of the one man on the committee who should be grateful that for the nearly three decades there have been activists in America who have refused to let die the issue of the fate of Americans lost and missing in Southeast Asia from the Vietnam War.

I am speaking of course of Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.). None of the Senators on the Select Committee have been as vicious in their attacks on POW/MIA family members and activists than the man behind the mask of war hero, former POW, and patriotic United States Senator . . .

Not even Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), who went into his job as chairman of the Select Committee with a predisposition that no one was left alive in Southeast Asia, that it was therefore "time to put the war behind us" and normalize relations with Hanoi, has shown such a bias against those who have fought and kept alive the POW/MIA cause.

Not even Sen. Kerry, with his own record as an anti-war protester during the early 1970s after serving in Vietnam--has turned a totally deaf ear to the numerous individuals and groups who are, correctly or not, convinced that Americans were and are alive in captivity in Southeast Asia.

What, therefore, motivates a John McCain to attack as a pit bull everyone and anyone who has the opinion that men are still alive in the very same captivity that he himself once experienced? Mr. McCain disguises his attacks on the POW/MIA by claiming he is on the committee to ask "the tough questions" to grill and berate in order to get to the truth. What motivates the man, who at the same time has shown a sensitive, almost patronizing approach to U.S. government officials who have lied to the committee? . . .

Borrowing from the title of a popular movie of some years ago, many activists who have felt the fangs of this pit bull call him the "Manchurian Candidate." Is that a fair accusation to level at Senator McCain, the war hero and the former POW?

In the movie, "The Manchurian Candidate," actor Lawrence Harvey portrayed the character of a former POW and war hero of the Korean War, whose brainwashing by his communist captors resulted in his enemies being able to manipulate his actions. To trigger him to do their bidding all they had to do was have him play solitaire with the Queen of Diamonds being the trigger that made him theirs, body and soul .

Pale Rider wrote on January 16, 2008 1:57 PM:

Sorry if I'm blog whoring, but there's a link between Orson Swindle and Ted Sampley/Paul Weyrich that I talk about here:

http://bluegirlredmissouri.blogspot.com/

Hopefully this adds to the understanding of what is going on with the Vietnam Vets against McCain.

Mooser wrote on January 16, 2008 3:50 PM:

Big M, it's insane, isn't it? And the fact that a man was willing, eager to do the job of bombing innocent civilians from 30,000 feet somehow qualifies him to lead people?

But I think there is an inescapable logic to the piece, tho: Americans, who dish out torture, should be tough eneough to take it when it's used on them. If they're not, where's the advantage in using torture?
McCain got torture, hell, lightweight torture, and he broke. No American worth his remote would do that, and he is not worthy of leading us. Should make perfect sense to Repubs.
"If he really cared about America he wouldn'a told them North Vietnameses nothin'!"

lestatdelc wrote on January 16, 2008 4:41 PM:

FYI, Ted Smapley is a gadfly crank who has been arrested for stalking McCain. So let's not claim anywhere near that limb, much less out on it.

Just sayin'

Steve wrote on January 16, 2008 4:42 PM:

Why does this sound like a Romney approach to me? You guys need to watch the movie September Dawn and realize why we don't want Romney in the White House.

Hambone wrote on January 16, 2008 10:16 PM:

I believe that some of the information contained in the pictured caricature and associated links is factual.

Brad Cohen wrote on January 17, 2008 3:13 AM:

'Imagine what we look like to the world at large. We detain and torture people without any recourse to legal counsel or a trial. We sell worthless bonds all over the world. We try to commandeer the world's resources for our selfish use. We allow our military to harry and threaten others. A president like bush makes us reviled and mocked the world over.'

when will you Yanks stop torturing yourself about being a great empire and just revel in the glory of it?
The world needs empires to maintain stability, once you become an empire you can't withdraw from it, you've made too many enemies over the past century, if you don't maintain your influence over the periphery of the eurasian landmass hostile powers will gain greater resources and threaten your security at home in the long run. Don't worry about being imperialists, just be better and more consistent imperialists...

Thomas Jefferson wrote on January 17, 2008 8:52 AM:

Fine, whatever...

How come mclame didn't show this kind of outrage when rover smeared him in 2000 by spreading the rumor that he had a black baby?

mclame is only as tough as the powers to be want him to be.

Goldspinner wrote on January 17, 2008 11:02 AM:

Steve and E.F. Mawson have a point. After checking out the link in Pale Rider's fourth post, the name Orson Swindle stood out. Here's some info on Swindle from the Cyber Security Industry Alliance web-site http://www.register123.com/event/profile/web/index.cfm?PKwebID=0x322442519&varPage=info

Orson G. Swindle III
Distinguished Fellow
Progress & Freedom Foundation
Former Commissioner, Federal Trade Commission
Chairman of Information Security Projects
Center for Information Policy Leadership, Hunton & Williams, LLP

Orson Swindle is a distinguished fellow at the Progress & Freedom Foundation, where he directs a project titled "Securing the Internet." Before joining the Foundation, Swindle was a Commissioner at the Federal Trade Commission for more than seven years. He played a leadership role in addressing information system security and privacy concerns in both domestic and international settings through the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development and the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation organization. Swindle also served as Assistant Secretary for Economic Development at the Department of Commerce during the Reagan Administration. Along with his work at PFF, Swindle is the Chair of Information Security Projects for Hunton & Williams' Center for Information Policy Leadership. While a Marine aviator in South Vietnam, Swindle was shot down on his 205th mission and was held in Hanoi as a prisoner of war for more than six years. He has a B.S. from Georgia Tech and an MBA from Florida State.

This may be coincidental but Orson is a VERY common first name in the LDS community. I'm checking to see if there's another connection to Romney somewhere. This smells like payback for the comments made by McCain's mother.

Goldspinner wrote on January 17, 2008 11:13 AM:

Swindle was also an Assistant Secretary in the U.S. Department of Commerce under Reagan.

tomack wrote on January 18, 2008 8:27 AM:

Bravo, Big M, bravo.

Rrogers1963 wrote on January 19, 2008 7:09 PM:

Big M It is better to remain silent and make people wonder about you than to open your mouth and let everyone how little reason you have.

Big M wrote on January 20, 2008 5:58 AM:

Rrogers:

Like everyone else, you have no intelligent response to either my facts or my questions. At least the others had the maturity to not engage in sidelong ad hominem attacks.

Either directly confront my arguments and answer my questions, or blow it out your ass.

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